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Skullgirls Encore Edition Tiers and Matchups Discussion Thread: The Revengeance

So much for the match-up discussion, huh?
 
The tier list is clearly

S++: Annie
S: Fortune/Filia/Robo-Fortune
A: Valentine/Peacock/Cerebella
B: Cerebella/Painwheel/Squigly
C: Big Band/Beowulf
D: Painwheel/Valentine
E: liza
 
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NY_Jailhouse said:
boob tier list:

Jailbait Tier - Peacock
S+ Double, Painwheel
S Valentine, Cerebella
A - filia, parasoul, squigly
U - ms fortune
At last, this thread is finally getting somewhere.
 
What do you guys think the worst matchup is in the game, team or otherwise?
 
parasoul v peacock is pretty shite now that bfhk is garbage
 
Yeah, Parasoul vs. Peacock is a pretty hard match-up for Para IMO.
 
I don't mind solo peacock that much, but the second she gets something like updo or a butt on her....man....
 
Every single fucking mirror match is cringe worthy.

Peacock vs Parasoul or Painwheel. Rip

Parasoul vs Painwheel s/o j.lp ggs
 
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Oh, I didn't know there was one of those for Skullgirls. Made one: http://www.mmcafe.com/tiermaker/sku...c5dbaxkddaddes00dw00go00go-bkg-naKhaosMuffins

I put Peacock lower than I did on my first list. I feel like she's still strong but just... much less annoying. Even after watching Rikers at Super Arcade the other night I couldn't help but think that something was... off. Though Rikers does play rushdown Peacock so yeah.
 
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Whose list has Double more rounded than fortune?

Also, I think Parasoul is outright the most well rounded character in the game.

Safe dhcs on level one and 3, good dhc synergy, not as good as catheads or gregor, but close to gregor.

Fantastic normals, a good anti air, and decent damage.

I think when I get a pc I am going to test out to see if you can charge backdash into an lk egret, making it damn hard to keep her down.
 
Drop down Para,Cere and PW just a little bit and we've got ourselves a deal.
 
Holy crap the Madman Cafe people are quick. I sent then a note about missing Squigly like an hour or two ago and they've already added Squigly and the other DLC characters.
 
Why is everyone cramming all the characters in the top of the chart?
 
Seeing Valentine at the end of "Has Faults" is the silly thing I've seen in this thread.

Tbh I'm guessing most of you using the mmcafe tier maker didn't know that the default options is terrible but they can be edited to get your point across / fit the game in question.
 
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iLoli said:
Whose list has Double more rounded than fortune?

Also, I think Parasoul is outright the most well rounded character in the game.

Safe dhcs on level one and 3, good dhc synergy, not as good as catheads or gregor, but close to gregor.

Fantastic normals, a good anti air, and decent damage.

I think when I get a pc I am going to test out to see if you can charge backdash into an lk egret, making it damn hard to keep her down.


Best in the game =/= most well rounded

I think Double is most well rounded because she has the best combination of being able to score easy, universal damage (most of her combos will work on everyone with little to no adjustment, i.e. barrel loops), simple and effective reset game, good ability to pressure, good air to air, good ground game, and can zone effectively from full screen against most characters. Also has safe DHC synergy and an assist that compliments any team. Double can be put anywhere on a team (point, anchor, or user) and be used effectively.


Fortune doesn't have that great of air to air, and can't do much from full screen without the head specifically positioned. She also doesn't have that great of DHC synergy.

As for parasoul her level 1 DHCs aren't actually all that safe, her damage is lowest in the game, and her defence can be weak at certain positions due to inherently having to hold down for her reversal, leaving her susceptible to overheads.

Y

IsaVulpes said:
How does anyone have Valentine aka "I need to be point on a triteam and suck donkeyballs everywhere else" not at the very edge of "Has Faults"?

http://www.mmcafe.com/tiermaker/sku...o12tai5g5j2rlj5j7s5h00dw00go00go-bkg-naaieaie

There are so many ways to get around Valentines faults through proper team building that many of them become not that big of an issue.
 
I think we're going about this the wrong way.

Lemme introduce to you the chart.

ufnbdQA.jpg


The chart is currently a proof-of-concept. It's not designed to be a tier list, nor is this version of it a final statement of comparison.

About a year and a half into the game, we've come to the conclusion that even if Skullgirls has tiers, those tiers are incredibly close relative to tiers in other games and do not consider teams/assists in the matter. People use tier charts as a way to judge which characters are worth pursuing and why, and this chart is another way of going about that altogether.

It's also a coincidence that if you score the characters by their positive aspects and subtract their negative aspects (on the chart), you get what I believe to be a score of how viable that character is solo, which is a cute concept that only has 1 or 2 uses (namely, the discovery that-- BIG SHOCKER-- Squigly, Painwheel, and Peacock are terrible solos and Ms. Fortune, Parasoul, and Filia are pretty good solos!) and then is about as helpful as discovering which characters are most easily played while holding one's breath.

Things I included here and why:
  1. Airdashes, because their universal utility is obvious. Peacock's airdash is closer to Bella's glide when it comes to traditional utility, so I left it off.
  2. Battery, or How much meter a character builds for their team on average. Yes, this is a debatable topic, but it generally covers Peacock + all the fast vortex characters because they do a lot of hits without needing meter to extend combos.
  3. Crossthrough movements = Teleport, Flesh Step, Alpha Blade, Kanchou.
  4. Frontloaded describes characters that do a large amount of damage in the first few hits of their combos, which multiples heavily with quick resets.
  5. Throw conversion means midscreen, grounded, and METERLESS. Item Drop and Seria Charge don't count.
  6. Zoning conversion = Can you start a combo from fullscreen? Did you know that Filia's actually got a pretty damn good fireball?
  7. "Lacks assists" is weird in a game with custom assists, but Val and Carol players usually end up using c.MK/c.MP, throw, a shitty projectile, or an advancing special move for their assist, which is essentially the bare minimum of any character in the game (without any of the interesting assists other characters have).
  8. Yes, it is possible for Filia to be both a meter hog AND a battery. She can't convert from throws or fireballs without spending meter, which is kind of a big deal, but she DOES generate a shitload of meter the rest of the time.
  9. "Zoning Weak" means that you can't get through zoning without the help of assists or spending meter. And that's not a mistake, Peacock IS Zoning Weak; it's why Peacock mirrors are really really hard and why Cock'N'Load beats Doublecock.
  10. Peacock can't chain into a launcher if she hits with a low attack unless she's dropping an item or using an assist. This is worthy of its own category.

I'm actually considering making a thread for this chart by itself, but first I'd like to discuss it here!
 
Peacock's zoning is weak? Filia and Fortune don't have extreme damage but SQUIGLY does? What does having a launching low even have to do with any of it? And Parasoul's a poor solo.
 
Low can't launch? Why put the warning sign categories above the character instead of immediately below them?

Cool idea.
 
i like it, but i think there are some errors in your checks.

why does throw conversion have some many exceptions? you can convert with squiggly off of throw more times then you can't. if parasoul has throw conversion marked, so should squiggly

if squiggly is "extreme damage" then so is double, filia and most CERTAINLY fortune.

why do you think val is weak to zoning? it is often considered she does quite well against peacock and parasoul

that's it for now. definitions need work, mostly, but that's semantics...
 
GirlyStyle said:
why does throw conversion have some many exceptions? you can convert with squiggly off of throw more times then you can't. if parasoul has throw conversion marked, so should squiggly
I have to run real quick, but I'd like to address this bit.

If I get a random throw in a grounded situation and can convert no matter what, that counts in my book. Grounded because low/throw is a true 50/50, air throws require incredibly specific spacing, and air throws statistically almost never happen as reversals, all of which greatly contributes to their threat level. If I have no meter, then I'm dicked. If I'm not already charging an item drop, then I'm dicked (which excludes reversals entirely). If I don't have stance charge (so either it's early, I used it as an assist, I used it to sing/chord on point, or I got snapped in), then I'm dicked. If Valentine could only convert off grounded throws by having a vial charged, I'd include it as an exception just the same. I hope that makes sense.

Parasoul can convert any throw from any position without setup. She can begin charging pillar/distraction/bike after the throw animation begins, so that doesn't count as prior setup and suddenly means grounded throw is always a threat.
 
Broken Loose said:
I have to run real quick, but I'd like to address this bit.

If I get a random throw in a grounded situation and can convert no matter what, that counts in my book. Grounded because low/throw is a true 50/50, air throws require incredibly specific spacing, and air throws statistically almost never happen as reversals, all of which greatly contributes to their threat level. If I have no meter, then I'm dicked. If I'm not already charging an item drop, then I'm dicked (which excludes reversals entirely). If I don't have stance charge (so either it's early, I used it as an assist, I used it to sing/chord on point, or I got snapped in), then I'm dicked. If Valentine could only convert off grounded throws by having a vial charged, I'd include it as an exception just the same. I hope that makes sense.

Parasoul can convert any throw from any position without setup. She can begin charging pillar/distraction/bike after the throw animation begins, so that doesn't count as prior setup and suddenly means grounded throw is always a threat.

so do you mean full conversion or partial (throw xx napalm pillar) because parasoul can't ALWAYS get conversion off of throw (i.e. you don't always have egret cancel). I just think the parameters should be the same, despite situation
 
Peacock can chain a low into a launcher.
c.MK, s.HK, qcb+HP, Dash, s.LP, s.MP, s.MK
Ta da! Magical, isn't it?

Also, I don't think peacock should be under zoning weak... In a solo peacock mirror match we don't have anything to talk about, and in a team mirror match the possibility of one opponent having assists that work better in this match-up than the opponent's applies to literally every mirror match ever, so it's a pretty silly justification.
I know these things because I play a team of 3 peacocks.
 
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For the record Val fits in for both extreme damage and zoning conversion (Green Vial / CH air dead cross)
 
Oh, and peacock has an airdash you silly willy.
I didn't even notice that.
You're really cut peacock short here...
 
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Bella really doesn't fall into the 'extreme damage' category since her recent nerfs.

Sure, she does good damage with a few situational, character specific, corner-only combos but against the vast majority of opponents her damage is almost as bad as Parasoul's.
 
You could add "has air super y/n" as a category.
 
That's not a chain, that's a link. If Peacock goes for the high/low/throw mixup, her lightest low is 2MK, if she hits with that, she can't launch into her standard air combo. She instead has to link another chain in order to get the launcher.
 
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