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Skullgirls Encore Edition Tiers and Matchups Discussion Thread: The Revengeance

If you're doing Bella/Squiggly, you want Silver Chord as an assist imo. The stagger follow-ups to Dynamo and Diamond Drop allowing easy combo conversion, possible follow-ups to LnL, back it with a solid all-around assist on anchor (LK Bomber, Hairball, Pillar/Updo) and you're good. Sing always seemed like it can work, or it can result in both characters getting hit because the opponent was doing something at the time it was called, doesn't really seem consistent. I guess against Peacock, if you find space to call it, then it can be good. Otherwise, meh.
 
This is more teambuilding theory than tiers but I think peacock and fortune could use sing assist pretty well. If you're able to get high up while calling assists, sing grabs focus, letting you do whatever shenanigans pretty much off screen. Both of these characters have double jumps + air dashes and simultaneously have a way to hit people that are grounded from way up high (head and item drop/j.mk).
 
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Peacock is actually one of the other theory fighter good with sing characters. As age mentioned, sing obscures super jump and double jumps and item drop when combined with sing is imho rather powerful. Not only that, but the opponent cant turtle mp item drop anymore cause sing will bring them back in. And finally sing actually is really good for bomb pressure do st.hp plus sing and cancel into mp item drop and call bombs... Good midscreen lockdown. The problem is that its terrible as a strat if the opponent was coming toward you anyways. Its best when the opponent is trying to get away from peacock..which happens a lot..
But not enough to be super predictable.

As i said before though, sing is a different beast. Dont write it off just cause you fumbled around with and used it while jumping backwards and got squigly killed, or while empty jumping forward and got her killed... Its not throw out assist its a synergetic setup assist that is designed with specific abilities to combine it with...like fortunes head lockdown or peacocks item drop, or painwheels armor (sing calls the opponent toward painwheel, painwheel armors the opponent attack and cant be high/lowed so it doesnt matter whether they did a jump attack or not.. Which is what makes it better than calling sing and blocking... Plus there's also the advantage that armor will eventually attack whereas blocking wont... Of its own accord)


But of course sing as a standalone assist isnt a good look, but that should be plainly obvious. You need a pillar/bomber/updo/copter at anchor for 90% of the assist calls.
 
Why would you ever call it jumping back? EDIT: Other than as a straight meat shield I guess haha.


Anyway, it's a bit of a strange assist if its main use is to set up mixups (which your point has to grab the advantage for, because she isn't helping).

The fact that Squigly takes a huge step forward makes it much harder to protect than you make it sound, I didn't just try to use it in a few games, I've probably played a couple hundred with it at least.

It's best uses are to catch your opponent by surprise when they are doing something fullscreen and in very rare conversion situations that it creates.
It has uses, but her 2HP is probably the best low assist in the game and is long range, acting as a bit of a Cerecopter - lite in that regard. It is also low profile and Squigly stays back behind the huge hitbox, making it a reasonably safe to call assist as well. I don't see much of a reason to use sing over 2HP unless you have a team where neither a low nor a lockdown assist would be of any use to you.

Age mentioning Peacock is an idea though, pulling them into MP item range, that would probably be a pretty effective tactic and not many characters/players will be doing stuff fullscreen against Peacock. I can see some synergy there.
 
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Lol because age said it its good? I remember telling him about peacock synergy with sing months ago. Not that he couldnt or didnt come up with it himself before even then... But still. All those things i talked about are all good. Its just up to the player to make them good or bad. Like updo is terrible if you never hit with it... So make sure you are gpbetter than bad and hit with it. Every move has theoryfighter bad uses... I'm not saying that sing is some all powerful thing.

I remember people telling me that squigly cr.hp wasnt good... Now they want to use it. Drag n bite also isnt good.. Has weaknesses. Months from now someone will be raving about it. Sing is a good assist. It isnt updo or pillar or bomber but it is good and has great uses. Ignore the parts where i said that it gets painwheels corner combos at midscreen, where it makes painwheel air lk buer an actual threat on hit since it confirms from it, where painwheel can suck people into her ground armor and not be worried about high/low.

Where painwheel can call her out and then air armor and the opponent cant out space it. Etc etc etc.

The move is good, it is NOT easy to apply nor is it all day always available option. Like most utility assist it has its places to stick it in.

Hell parasoul can throw a shot and call squigly assist into it and get pressure like that... There's so many things that can be done with it.


And also, squigly cr.hp assist is also utility and isnt going to be used that much at neutral cause of no invincibility and lower hitbox. Its used in the small situations where one is already in on hit as a reset or where one is in on block and trying to get a hit. It wont get you in at all. Sing will have that ability with the right characters and teams.
 
Does anyone else feel like duos took a big step down in encore? Individual trio characters got a lot more durability with the undizzy nerf combined with the team durability of having a Plan B shell, and needing more than one honest touch to kill a trio with a duo makes it seem really uphill.
 
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Yes Duo's took a huge hit imo.

In SDE/MDE they STILL weren't the best option but you could get by, now its pretty bad to be completely honest. I feel like Peacock/Dubs and Peacock teams are good, but anyone else kinda get nerfed even more.
 
obregon said:
Does anyone else feel like duos took a big step down in encore? Individual trio characters got a lot more durability with the undizzy nerf combined with the team durability of having a Plan B shell, and needing more than one honest touch to kill a trio with a duo makes it seem really uphill.
Definitely, I think trios are just better than duos in this version. "Duo is bad for you" is the new "Solo is bad for you".
 
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In SDE there was no real reason to play duo's(unless you played peacock) because trio's could touch of death duo's without much effort. In MDE your damage output potential was so high that you could get by with damage alone, and stage 5 building stun gave you sooo much more room to work with because your resets hit people HARD.

Encore? Not so much. Trio's are going to reset you and kill you at the same rate they'd kill you if you played trio, and even if they spent 2 bars to kill your point after a reset or two you're now stuck in 3v1 or more commonly 2v1. Duo's damage output isn't worth it when you can kill a trio's point only to get hit and get level 1'd into level 3'd and die.
 
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dekillsage said:
In SDE there was no real reason to play duo's(unless you played peacock) because trio's could touch of death duo's without much effort. In MDE your damage output potential was so high that you could get by with damage alone, and stage 5 building stun gave you sooo much more room to work with because your resets hit people HARD.

Encore? Not so much. Trio's are going to reset you and kill you at the same rate they'd kill you if you played trio, and even if they spent 2 bars to kill your point after a reset or two you're now stuck in 3v1 or more commonly 2v1. Duo's damage output isn't worth it when you can kill a trio's point only to get hit and get level 1'd into level 3'd and die.

Duo's damage output is still pretty good as far as PW is concerned. She's two touching off every confirm for light meter (Even in 2v2), and a CH can secure a kill in so many situations. The only reason I haven't jumped to the 3-character ship is the fact that Ratio 2 PW's numbers are so good. The team feels kind of risky, because once PW's out of the picture, I'm left with solo-Double, but I'll probably run this team until it's no longer viable.
 
Yeah I really feel like it depends on the character. High-damage output characters like Bella, Squigly, PW, Big Band, are more suited to Duo's than more mixup/reset heavy characters like Filia or Valentine.

One good CH combo is really all you need to put somebody away in a 2v3, or put them so close to dead that you can chip them out.
 
If Duos is the new liability pick wonder what makes solos then lol
 
Mobility tiers

S: Valentine, Filia
A: Painwheel, Fortune
B: Parasoul, Double
C: Cerebella, Peacock, Squigly, Big Band

Assist tiers

S: Hornet Bomber, Updo
A: Cerecopter, Fiber Upper, Napalm Pillar, Fillia Ball
B: Other stuff
 
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Broken Loose said:
What makes Updo better than Pillar?

Faster startup, better hitbox (Pillar has this annoying dead-zone in the middle), more active frames and easier to confirm off of (less knockback).

However, Pillar has more invincibility frames and it also has more blockstun (which makes it better for lockdown/mixups).

Also Filia is, IMO, the better anchor of the two, so there's that to consider as well, a lot of teams are running Parasoul on point or second and therefore you don't really get to use Pillar assist as much.
 
Pillar hits me when I'm behind my opponent. That's some bs right there will NOT front
 
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blufang said:
Mobility tiers

S: Valentine, Filia
A: Painwheel, Fortune
B: Parasoul, Double
C: Cerebella, Peacock, Squigly, Big Band

Assist tiers

S: Hornet Bomber, Updo
A: Cerecopter, Fiber Upper, Napalm Pillar, Fillia Ball
B: Other stuff
Why?
 
Assists or Mobility? I think mobility is fairly obvious though you could maybe split the bottom 4 into separate tiers.

Assists would take more time to explain though I think everyone concedes Updo and Hornet Bomber are the best. Updo has fast startup, great hitbox, invincibility frames. Hornet Bomber unlike most other lockdown assists, has an arching motion that makes it much harder to avoid. Superb priority and covers a ton of space.
 
parasoul is worst mobility in the game, that's why peacock and fortune are her worst matchups.

And yea for assists, Updo is def better than pillar... pillar is easier to stuff, has less of a vertical hitbox and easier to punish. Not to mention, filia is better on incoming and at non-point roles over all.
Although for some situations pillar is better, because it has a better horizontal hitbox.
 
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Parasoul's ground dash is probably the best in the game, and I'd rate that higher than a double jump any day. Her air mobility is meh but you can get around things with sj.hk and j.mk, as well as not be a sitting duck when you toss tears in the air since you can normal from them.
 
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konkrete said:
Parasoul's ground dash is probably the best in the game, and I'd rate that higher than a double jump any day. Her air mobility is meh but you can get around things with sj.hk and j.mk, as well as not be a sitting duck when you toss tears in the air since you can normal from them.
I concur.

She's not airdashing around, but when you're actually moving with Parasoul, the opponent just has to man up and fight you or try something hella risky like air super.
 
Honestly, her lack of a double jump really only comes up in the Mirror Match and the Peacock match.

Everywhere else, her extremely good ground dashes are a bigger asset.
 
Dagwood said:
parasoul is worst mobility in the game, that's why peacock and fortune are her worst matchups.

And yea for assists, Updo is def better than pillar... pillar is easier to stuff, has less of a vertical hitbox and easier to punish. Not to mention, filia is better on incoming and at non-point roles over all.
Although for some situations pillar is better, because it has a better horizontal hitbox.
"Easier to stuff" aside (Pillar has more invuln), how is Pillar (-31) easier to punish than Updo (-72)?
 
Broken Loose said:
"Easier to stuff" aside (Pillar has more invuln), how is Pillar (-31) easier to punish than Updo (-72)?
If they mean on assist, I can understand.

Plenty of assists cross up when coming down.
 
Broken Loose said:
"Easier to stuff" aside (Pillar has more invuln), how is Pillar (-31) easier to punish than Updo (-72)?

because of the hitbox, you can just double jump over it and hit it on the way down
 
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Updo is a better anti air than Pillar but Pillar is much better as a counter assist due to its better invincibility and recovery. In terms of a defensive reversal assist Pillar is far better than Updo. The reason why you see Updo more is because Filia is more common to see as an assist character than Parasoul.

To keep is simple Pillar outshines Updo in every way excepted for air coverage.
 
as for duos vs trios, totally on paper trio has all the advantages but i think how team size effects personal play style will always be more important
 
What do you think is the easiest and the hardest to learn characters?

Which are the ones actually worthy of learning?

Here's my guess:

:B: :YB: 'HACKER' TIER :F:
*Filia
+Easy to master cancels
+Few moves->Little to learn
+Fast attacks with no penalty
+Epic Ensemble Attack
*Parasoul
+Fairly easy combos
+Somewhat hard to learn but good all around
+Epic Ensembles Attack
*Valentine
+Long and painful combos
+But easy to remember and learn (doesn't need special cancels or any of that shit)
*Miss Fortune
+Hard to learn combos with detached head
+otherwise fairly easy, strong combos

:B: :Blue: 'STILL LOSE TO HACKER TIER' TIER :F:
*Cerebella
+Strong combos and move
-Easy to punish
+Easy to learn
+Nice grabs
-Slow
*Peacock
+Great Zoning
-That's it
*Double
+Great Combo variety and mobility overall
+Easy to learn
-Not that strong combos
*Big Band
+Strong moves with good reach
+Easy Combos
-Large Hitbox


:B: :OB: WASTE OF TIME TIER :F:
*Squigly
+Cancels
+Easy combos
-Poor mobility
-Needs to charge her stances
*Painwheel
-Kinda vulnerable in air
-Susceptible to most anti air attacks
-Fly cancel is pretty hard to get used to
+Painful combos
+Nice for owning noobs but not mobile enough to stand agaisnt good opponents
 
Painwheel is actually really, really good iirc.

"Susceptible to anti airs" doesn't seem quite as valid considering she has tone bajillion frames of super armor, an air super for punishing ground aa attempts, plenty of options for wiff baiting with fly, and a ton of moves that hit at very awkward angles to counter.
 
I don't understand how these tiers are rated.

Why?
 
:B: :YB: 'HACKER' TIER :F:
*Filia
*Parasoul
*Valentine
*Miss Fortune

:B: :Blue: 'STILL LOSE TO HACKER TIER' TIER :F:
*Peacock
*Double
*Cerebella
*Big Band

:B: :OB: WASTE OF TIME TIER :F:
*Squigly
*Painwheel

Hmmm.
 
What I didn't get was the naming of the tiers. What is a "hacker"? A cheater?
 
>"Waste of Time" tier
>Squigly

I think a few players, myself included, would disagree.:PUN:
 
WTF at Parasoul being easier to use than Bella. My Bella was better after 30 minutes than my Parasoul is now.
 
To be fair, there are no 'highly technical characters' in this game lol. I guess there are characters that are harder than others, but in the grand scheme of things Skullgirls is pretty friendly compared to other fighters when it comes to execution and technicality of characters.
 
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