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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

The new jump itself feels great, I almost like it more than the old one, but it's too new for me to give a verdict on if we should keep it, or even if it's a good change.
 
not even. just not even at some of the comments above. i'll give it another day.
give it like a week, this requires some major thought and testing. this does change up the feel of the game very much. we need to figure out the effects of this change brings.
 
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give it like a week, this requires some major thought and testing. this does change up the feel of the game very much. we need to figure out the effects of this change brings.

as MUCH as i SHOULD. this is the very first time where i do not want to try this out anymore. hell this is the very first time i thought "oh god, definitely not trying out this change" and i have a feeling that even after a week i'm going to seriously hate this experiment even more.
i'm not qualified for this experiment.
 
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as MUCH as i SHOULD. this is the very first time where i do not want to try this out anymore. hell this is the very first time i thought "man i should not give this a shot anymore" and i have a feeling that even after a week i'm going to seriously hate this experiment even more.
i'm not qualified for this experiment.
well it's got to be someone. I can't cause i couldn't drag my pc back home for the holidays, but i really wish i could play the beta right now. stupid work laptop not being able to play video games.
 
I hope this testing/update gets news post at SRK since its a pretty big experiment (and I find system-wide changes like this fascinating).

Or at the very least a mention on SDRcast and Ultrachen and any other fighting game news casts I can't recall.
 
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Well the only combo thing that has been effected so far I've noticed is my mid combo Eliza restand not working but it is probably easily replaceable without altering much else.

This feels like a really big buff for Squigly, she can drift so far now and her already great vertical mobility is through the roof.

Hope this stays around for a while at least, I'm really interested to test this out in game over a decent period of time and see how it ends up feeling. My first impressions I actually kinda like it.
 
I haven't played with the new superjump yet, but I really don't like the idea of relearning every single combo and starting over.
 
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Painwheel can already fly up to SJ height if your opponent is up there. She's limited to X height above your opponent. I reaaaaaally don't want to let PW fly up to SJ height ABOVE her opponent because she can still call assists. MvC2 and older games limits flight height relative to your opponent for this reason.

Yes, there are indicators of where you and your assists are when offscreen, they've been there for a year or so.

Peacock's SoiD is actually much better now because of how far you are from the ground if you decide to try to dodge her regular zoning with a superjump, and it's one of the only things that gets that high.

@everyone who doesn't like superjumps so far
Is it because of neutral / how they feel, or because of combos?
Maybe @IsaVulpes suggestion of "launchers give you old uncontrollable jumps" could get tried, it's honestly not that bad although it'd be weird...or it could be adapted where only minilaunchers give the old short super jumps. I'm not sure I want to do "all launchers give the old superjumps" because I don't really care if people have to do new combos, since it means new combos.

@Night Phyre
Actually not a lot of rebalancing would have to be done, which is one of the reasons I wanted to try this. It alters balance, but it does so game-wide and the few specific instances (Squigly HK divekick, Fukua j.HK and drill super, Cerebella c.MK) can be fixed.

I couldn't figure out any new combo routes that were worth a damn.
- Lots of things still work either slower or unadjusted. Parasoul can still do j.MP->HP->HK slower, Fortune can basically do everything, etc. Minilaunchers are more affected than most, as were combos that start with sj.HP or sj.HK, which I'm fine with. Cerebella can do c.MK->sj->dj and still get regular j.MP-j.HK, although that particular thing is something I'd address anyway.
- Plenty of new stuff that does more damage is available, like barrel loops can be done with just sj.HK->barrel or sj.MK->HK->barrel, which adds damage.
And just to point out the flaw in your logic even if you were correct about all combos being worse, if nobody has any combos that are "worth a damn", then the new standard for "worth a damn" is the less damaging combos, which means they're now fine.

Missing patch notes / unintended change:
- Can no longer input super after the round is over and the 'Will enter win pose when you touch the ground' period has started?
That's the "reversal window is now shorter" part, you can probably still do it with better timing although I really should just lock out all your inputs. Good point.

I haven't played with the new superjump yet, but I really don't like the idea of relearning every single combo and starting over.
Treat it like a sequel.

I love how Lab Zero just casually decides to make beta into a completely different game than retail for no reason.
The fact that it's the Beta IS the reason.
 
Most things still work im pretty sure

I love how Lab Zero just casually decides to make beta into a completely different game than retail for no reason.
you mean they change the game to see if it will help improve the game or not?
 
you mean they change the game to see if it will help improve the game or not?

All I mean is that playing the game is a completely different experience than it was before. It remains to be seen, of course, whether this change will make the game better or not.
 
That's the "reversal window is now shorter" part, you can probably still do it with better timing although I really should just lock out all your inputs. Good point.
God damn guess I can't get 2F links, even when I played back the recording it didn't seem to work.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe @IsaVulpes suggestion of "launchers give you old uncontrollable jumps" could get tried, it's honestly not that bad although it'd be weird...or it could be adapted where only minilaunchers give the old short super jumps. I'm not sure I want to do "all launchers give the old superjumps" because I don't really care if people have to do new combos, since it means new combos.
I think this is actually just a good idea because new combos + new neutral is a lot to take in for one change.
If all combos are the same and it's just a neutral change on the super jumps, then all players can focus on that one aspect instead of worrying about their old combos = better feedback?
 
hatersjc2.gif


i like the change a lot so far, it makes the game more interesting. It really doesnt seem to be THAT drastic most of the old stuff still works or can be slightly altered to work. Of course this is day 1 opinions but yeah. Its really great fun and hype as shit.
 
Eh I don't really like it. Its too weird and makes non heavy launchers that cause super jump pointless. Its reaaaaly weird and I liked the way SG neutral was horizontal, not vertical
 
What if SJ's worked exactly like they did before the current change (both at neutral and after launchers), but you could also input the MvC style SJ by holding down for an extended number of frames before jumping?
 
Can't use lock n load for neutral because you can suuuuuuuper jump. Pretty cool.
I can still do some combos yo, but its pretty awkward doing combos and having to hold forward to not get out of range and stuff. Like I do bella's j.lp -> j.hp and end up moving away from my opponent upon landing sometimes currently.

Also mike you said on the stream yesterday about how this would change neutral and potentially the setplay too?
Interested in how you'd like the setplay to change.
 
@Mike_Z I don't like the change for both neutral and from a combo standpoint.

Now this is definitely going to be some sort of bitching and moaning to you.

For neutral i always felt Superjump in retail has its place. to be above the opponent to get in.
This change however leads to a bunch of players super jumping in a weird way to lame out. catching superjumps before took a bit of observation. i also have not seen or gotten wins/losses due to time out from a super jump. it honestly made the game slow and boring TO ME. not sure if i would have more fun just putting my controller down, drinking my tea and waiting for the person to land yet.

as for combos. Filia so far is reduced to just scorpian tail combos that's just terrible on band.
some things are rather finicky EVEN after you delay your jump.

TL;DR: If by some miracle you made the super jumps slightly less obnoxious or just reverted it back to normal(right.). until then i find the game way too......boring(?) to even try to continue the experiment seriously.

ON a different note does anyone feel that the assist change was a bit much or is that fine to you guys?
 
Painwheel can already fly up to SJ height if your opponent is up there. She's limited to X height above your opponent. I reaaaaaally don't want to let PW fly up to SJ height ABOVE her opponent because she can still call assists. MvC2 and older games limits flight height relative to your opponent for this reason.


Understood. I dont want a painwheel from up above being able to call assists while flying near max superjump height either... Though val can currently do this in retail higher than retail superjump height by double jumping and then airdashing with an assist call. But val cant do it while flying which would be even more nuts than it already is.

A multi part question:

1. How long do you see this change being around in the beta assuming that it isnt adopted? (A couple of days? A week or more? etc etc)
2. Are suggestions something that you are wanting to get from us and are you willing to entertain some suggestions for different ways of implementing the super jump mechanics as per character?
3. If you are willing to entertain certain suggestions and knowing that no one really wants a flying painwheel of doom raining assists on people from near super jump height, would it be possible to try making it so that painwheel just cant call assists from superjump? Or maybe that she can can fly at superjump height but then "rather slowly" starts to decend... Like a storm float (controllable she can still descend as fast as she wants, she just cant continue her perch on high if no other character is in her vicinity, and cant call assists till shes at the maximum non descending flight height?


Just suggestions to maybe arrive at a happy medium. I personally would like to see this superjump stay, but i want the game to feel like it has benefitted from the superjump, not being detracted from, and right now... Its kinda feeling like the detracting kind of way in my VERY humble opinion.

Another try to be a happy medium is that maybe pw cant call assists from raw superjumps into fly but still can from launcher superjumps into fly. Thats actually a very happy medium if the vulpes suggestion takes effect since that superjump will also force the float mechanic and pw cant fly up to unassailable height while calling assists?
 
Super Jump feels too high or normal jumps too low. Indifference otherwise atm.
 
Most things still work im pretty sure
Almost none of my combos work anymore, lol. Only Double's barrel loops work.
 
I disliked the SJ change. It may just be that I never was really into the versus games, but this feels really weird. I enjoyed how the neutral game in Skullgirls worked were it was mainly horizontal and that jumping still had it's risks. Also how even tho the game has DHC's, assists, tags, etc. it still feels unique and with the change it becomes too much like the versus series. I could just be talking out of my ass here, but I do prefer the way it is on retail.
 
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Can't regular jump after mini-launch crouching move. Bellas c.MK being an example. Maybe second down input required to get superjump off non-heavy launch?
 
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OK yeah so this change definitely fucks up neutral game. I don't really care about having to learn new combos, but the more I look into this and test it, its like, you can just super jump out of set play. I respected SG for having such a ground/horizontal type neutral. I don't want to see the neutral turn into just really high jumping after all. The new Superjumps turn this game's neutral from horizontal based to vertical based, and (this is just me) but thats what turned me away from marvel. The new jumps are just bleu. I like SG how it is right now neutral wise.
Edit: The way I see the neutral going is just call assist --> SJ mixup land try to beat your opponent out the sky and I am not looking any bit forward to that.
 
Almost none of my combos work anymore, lol. Only Double's barrel loops work.
your Fukua combos dont work anymore? (im assuming you play her because it is in your profile thingy) I would think that they new Bypass in air thing would help Val from losing them but I guess I was wrong :<
 
I can't see this change as anything positive, and I can't imagine this seriously going into retail. It feels like one of those joke hacks that people do to games just to fuck around with physics. I cannot take the beta seriously at the moment, it's just people flying around everywhere, and I also don't appreciate needing to relearn combos and shit.

Yes, it's a knee jerk reaction, but my knee jerk reaction to 240 undizzy was that I hated it, and still to this day I strongly believe that 350 undizzy was more of my type of game, and more fun. I'm a knee jerk sort of guy.

Other than some small things (the chicken block/preblock stuff, I think Fukua is a bit too strong, and in my opinion the still-too-short combos) SG feels fine and great as is, like to the point of NOTHING else needing to change. I don't see why we're trying to fix what isn't broken?



Yes, I am 100% aware this is an experiment, not the end of the world and 100% subject to change at any instant.
 
Ok so i guess here's my two cents

I like the idea of higher super jumps, but i think the height is just a bit much right now. The jump height and the rest of the game just doesn't mesh well imo. A middle between the original and current would be nice to test out.

I REALLY like the feel of Painwheel right now. I definitely don't think she should be able to fly to super jump height and drag the screen with her, since that'd just be dumb. But the flight speed change is really really nice for her, although having to make adjustments in all of my combos would take time to get used to (but who cares about that lol)
 
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I really don't like the new SJ, but I'm not a marvel player. I don't like what this is going to do to the game balance, and I really really don't like that it's done just because marvel 2 had it. We're too close to the end of development for a core change like this.

I love skullgirls as is, and I'm not a fan of (can't stand) marvel, so this only serves to push me away from the game. I don't play skullgirls to play marvel, I play skullgirls to play skullgirls.

It could just be me but it also feels like this would weaken the ground game, which sucks.
 
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or it could be adapted where only minilaunchers give the old short super jumps.

I would like to try this out in the beta! Big Band's restand options from s.MK are more limited in beta than they are in retail, and this would help with that.
 
I honestly wanna see this change in for like... at least 2 weeks because it's pretty huge.

Thoughts so far after ~2 hours of matches:
- It's fun. Fun is good.
- It's impossible to tell how much this is gonna affect neutral so quickly. Everyone is just super jumping for the hell of it right now, though I REALLY love being able to alter my horizontal movement mid-air. Makes aerial footsies feel more fun and gives more characters a chance to compete in the air vs certain characters with proper spacing. Or at least that's what it felt like to me.
- Fortune being able to move the head around while at suuuuuuuper jump height is silly. I almost want to say there should be some sort of indicator for the head because it's impossible for the opponent to know what I'm doing with the head for way too long an amount of time for a character that can stay in the air as long as Fortune with a double jump + axe kick to alter her air momentum.
- A lot of Hairball dash cancel stuff was messed with, but that's combo stuff so....
- I know someone mentioned that the current super jump height may be a bit too high and should be 1.5x the height of a retail super jump. I kinda agree, but that's stuff to be tested later.
Edit: It was Domo and he mentioned it while I was typing this out.
- Painwheel snapping down so quickly when she super jumps and then goes into fly is just... silly looking. Seems like it should be a much more gradual decrease in height, though maybe Painwheel players can somehow make use of this sudden change in height to their advantage somehow?
 
What if SJ's worked exactly like they did before the current change (both at neutral and after launchers), but you could also input the MvC style SJ by holding down for an extended number of frames before jumping?
No, you'd get it accidentally or miss it accidentally, and it adds an execution layer that's just there to be difficult. Differentiating that kind of stuff with super strict inputs (short hops vs jumps vs hyper hops etc) is just going to screw up the less-good players.

@Dreamepitaph
Nah, that's the kind of feedback I appreciate!
But if they superjump you can superjump too...if you're waiting around on the ground then that might be the wrong thing to do. It's not like they have a movement option you don't.

@dekillsage
Having another universal option to escape poorly set up situations is helpful. I don't think SG has that much at present but less "I do this thing that's guaranteed" is always better.

Superjumps still have startup, and will still turn into ground preblock if you are attacking them low, so they still lose if you choose the wrong thing.

@KhaosMuffins
The current superjump height is almost exactly 1.5x the height of retail super jumps. Heh.


Lemme mess with some more stuff.
 
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Edit: It was Domo and he mentioned it while I was typing this out.
- Painwheel snapping down so quickly when she super jumps and then goes into fly is just... silly looking. Seems like it should be a much more gradual decrease in height, though maybe Painwheel players can somehow make use of this sudden change in height to their advantage somehow?
Man, that's the least of my concern when it comes to silly looking. the superjumps themselves look ridiculous, and air combos now look silly as fuck
 
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@everyone who doesn't like superjumps so far
Is it because of neutral / how they feel, or because of combos?
Maybe @IsaVulpes suggestion of "launchers give you old uncontrollable jumps" could get tried, it's honestly not that bad although it'd be weird...or it could be adapted where only minilaunchers give the old short super jumps. I'm not sure I want to do "all launchers give the old superjumps" because I don't really care if people have to do new combos, since it means new combos.
I have many things to say to this quote by itself, and I feel they might have importance enough to be actually shared.

Long story short: I hate this change.

- Is it because of neutral/feeling/combos?
All of them. Half of the reason why I hated MvC was because of their superjump. I'm the guy who will always speak up for communicating visually what's happening. Flying off to the moon and hiding whatever the hell the other player is doing is the exact opposite of telling your player what's going on. And please don't come up with the little P1/P2 indication when someone's offscreen because merely telling where they are is not even half of the information needed in a fighting game and we know it.

This new superjump also brings a new level of gameplay on air-to-air game that I particularly don't like. If you're the jumper, you will most likely prefer to see your opponent grounded and land on him with something, right? You can even control your movement while you're up there so you make sure that happens. One of the answers to that is superjumping in response and try to get a hit while your opponent is not blocking, and you can actually SEE if he's not blocking because of the way he's going up or falling. Call that "experimentation area" and I'll swallow it, but don't call this fun or likeable in any way. At least for me.

Now, notice that I didn't even come up with examples in the game itself. All these things I've said so far are critics I got for this mechanic as a whole and how (I think) it works in other games. In my opinion, these by themselves should be enough reasoning to discard any further thought on keeping it implemented.

because I don't really care if people have to do new combos, since it means new combos.
This is the part where it gets fuzzy. I also love the idea of new combos, but as @Mwisk said, this new superjump takes TOO MUCH away and I also feel it will act more as a restrainment to new ideas rather than giving us a new unexplored path.

Having all of these in mind, I have a suggestion:
Now we have 3 possible jumps: The common jump, the old superjump, and the new superjump.
- The old superjump is equivalent to what we're used to - down, up.
- The new superjump would be a CHARGED jump. Just like charge moves.
- Any launcher will use the old superjump instead of the new one. But you could STILL use the new superjump after it if you wanted to by pressing down, up after the launcher instead of only up.

I don't know how hard these would be to implement. The last one specially would allow new combo routes to appear and still don't break what's already working. In the end it might be too much of a hassle to work because many launchers are crouching moves, but what do I know?

If it were to ever stay, I really like the idea of making it a charged jump, though.

Okay, I feel better now that I said it.
 
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I'm trying to give this as fair a shot as possible, but I'm actually getting a little upset.
 
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@noaa how do I go from down back to a forward jump without flying away
Or charging pillar to not wanting pillar and doing a jump.

I don't think charging will work.
 
Val's movement with this new super jump is crazy oh my god