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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

konkrete said:
I like BB being able to block after parry. I don't think it will be too good as it is only used once in a blue moon now since it's so risky. I also like the changes to Sekhmet meter usage. I do not agree with Val getting the option of not using a loaded vial, I think she is fine without that buff. But hey what do I know
What is the buff? I can't find it anywhere
 
This is a strange buff, does the vial throw change effect combos with vial though or is that small an amount of frames negligible
 
The startup isn't changed so no. You just choose by releasing the button within the startup frames. So you have to adjust how you press the buttons in combos, I suppose, but they wouldn't change.
 
I like having access to shurikens with a vial loaded, my only concern is the loss of Flew Shot as an assist attack.
 
Give Val two versions of Shuriken Toss Assist,

QCF LP / MP / HP = Always tosses Shuriken no matter whether there's a Vial loaded or not
QCF LP+MP / MP+HP / LP+HP = Tosses the respective Shuriken, or Vial if loaded

Seems like the best of both worlds?
 
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dekillsage said:
I felt val needed some kind of buff, and this looks like a fair buff for her. We'll see how it plays out though. Yo @Outlaw_Spike since you're the shuriken toss king what do you think about this

Oh man, this is kind of like the coolest thing ever and I can't wait to play around with it. The thought of being able to save the vials for my combos and still being able to keep the dead cross pressure up has me salivating.

No longer will I double-load a vial after a kill, toss it at an incoming character just to keep up pressure, and pray it hits that 1/100 times. Yay!
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Give Val two versions of Shuriken Toss Assist,

QCF LP / MP / HP = Always tosses Shuriken no matter whether there's a Vial loaded or not
QCF LP+MP / MP+HP / LP+HP = Tosses the respective Shuriken, or Vial if loaded

Seems like the best of both worlds?

The hold is fine. Not sure how you're going to avoid throwing scalpels with two punches anyways.
 
Hilary said:
The hold is fine. Not sure how you're going to avoid throwing scalpels with two punches anyways.

He meant as an assist. You can't use supers as assists.
 
i think sekhmet costs an appropriate amount of meter now for the reset potential she offers...still seems like she's doing too much damage though when it works... i wonder if air sekhmet medium should count as the same move as ground sekhmet heavy for IPS
 
Considering how much meter is used it does a fair amount
 
Hopefullly I can download the beta sometime today, mess with the changes.
 
Seems really nice for Val to get her usual meterless corner carry -> hard knockdown + vial load and then be able to throw crosses down at you to keep control while she waits for undizzy to drain. Hell, she can make you stand up into a meaty cross.
 
Can we not add more weird rules and exceptions like this:

- If she is hit, Fukua can cancel the startup of her armored grab into her Lv3 or Lv5 super, but not Lv1s.

- s.HP damage 500+600+700 -> 400+500+900, same total damage; 3rd hit will cause invincible knockdown if used twice in the same combo.
Cerebella has the one kancho bounce per combo vs infinite wallbounces with any other move.
I think Fortune has a weird rule that I no longer remember.

Can we just keep it simple?
 
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Wait, we get infinite wall bounces? I thought it was one per combo for everyone?

To the lab!
 
alexpi said:
Wait, we get infinite wall bounces? I thought it was one per combo for everyone?

To the lab!
Snap backs on lone characters cause a wall bounce. Go ham.
 
alexpi said:
Wait, we get infinite wall bounces? I thought it was one per combo for everyone?

To the lab!
You've never played against Filia? Like for real?
 
why exactly was that taken away from bella anyway?
 
Evilweevle said:
why exactly was that taken away from bella anyway?
It was a gateway to really high damage with 0 resources used.
 
There was an IPS test for a while, where instead of tracking starters, it would track enders.

So current IPS:
s.HPx2 xx Tearshot, s.MP s.HPx2 xx Tearshot, s.LK s.MP s.HPx2 xx Tearshot, s.LP s.MP s.HPx2 xx Tearshot = Combo as, new starter every time (s.HP, then s.MP, then s.LP, then s.LP)

Ender tracking would go:
s.HPx2 xx Tearshot, s.MP s.HPx2 xx Tearshot, s.LK = Burst Trigger, as you reused the Tearshot ender.

It made combos a lot prettier, as this deletes all kinds of loops (Val doing j.HP > j.MK j.HP > j.LP j.HP, Barrel Loop, PW Install Buer Loops, etc) and forces you to actually come up with combos rather than "Find one good button / special "X" and do X, HP-X, MKHP-X, MPHP-X, LKHP-X, LPHP-X";
It would also have allowed you to take out all the arbitrary "once per combo" limits ('only one airdash out of Air Hairball per combo', 'only one Fukua Shadow per combo', 'only one Kanchou wallbounce per combo', etc) due to repetitions triggering Ender Tracking anyway.
It made combos faster and less damaging (in a nutshell, instead of H-MH-MMH-LMMH-LLMMH being your base combo, it went to being L-LL-LLM-LLMM-LLMMH - repeated lights instead of repeated heavies, meaning less startup/hitstop/damage on the normals you use), and was just all the coolness.

IIRC it didn't make it in due to
1) Completely rewriting near every combo in the game, possibly demanding new balance or whatever
2) Being confusing to players; in starter tracking it goes "Oh, I did this and it triggered Burst, okay let me do something else here", in ender tracking it's "Oh, I did this and it triggered Burst, okay let me do something else in the last chain" which is less simple to understand

Very sad.
 
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This is...disturbing...and...interesting...
...
Why am I starting to invent combos using this concept?
...
The more I'm thinking about it, the more the combo maker inside me is getting teased.
But yeah, way too confusing for new players.

I'll try to make an optimized bella combo using that, just to see how it would work out.
 
Two sample combos I did during the Beta test:
E: I think I *also* followed Starter Tracking here

Also note that there was no Undizzy for the duration of the test, which was kinda a bad idea
 
Yeah, it followed both starters and enders
 
Mr. X said:
Can we not add more weird rules and exceptions like this:

Cerebella has the one kancho bounce per combo vs infinite wallbounces with any other move.
I think Fortune has a weird rule that I no longer remember.

Can we just keep it simple?
Do you prefer simple over fun?
I try not to add weird rules, but I will add them where necessary to preserve fun while removing dumb stuff. If you are at a point where a weird rule affects you, then you are close to entering broken territory and you are also generally skilled enough that you can avoid the weird rule.

If Cerebella gets as many Kanchous as she wants she can do like 10k meterless even with undizzy. It was still like 9k meterless even if the very first Kanchou scaled down to minimum.
The "simple" alternative is that Kanchou NEVER wallbounces, but that's less fun. The other simple alternative is one wallbounce for everyone, but I dislike that limit even more. A slightly more complicated alternative is to make Kanchou not combo, but that's also less fun.

The alternative to Fukua being able to cancel only into Lv3/Lv5 is that she can't cancel the armored throw at ALL, which is how she was for 2 weeks before this, because the OS she gets as a result of being able to cancel with Lv1s is pretty bad. (React with an armored throw and mash drill super, if they hit you they get drilled and if not you don't waste the meter or risk whiffing a super, and possibly even get a grab. Same for BFFs.)

Eliza with as many s.HPs as she wants could do corner things like s.HPx3 xx divekick, s.HPx3 xx HP Sekhmet->recall, s.MK->s.HPx3 xx MP Sekhmet->HP->recall, s.LPx3->s.MKx2->s.HPx3 xx LP Sekhmet->LP->LP->MP->HP->recall, super. Which is a pretty amazing amount of damage. As it is you can still do this without the axe if you use HPx2, which costs you a full axe rep and 900 damage per HP. As long as you could combo off it at ALL more than once it would give you the other route. So this fixes that stuff without impacting much else.

There aren't very many weird rules present, and each of them cleans up a fairly major thing that would otherwise qualify as very broken. Mostly you think they're unwarranted because you didn't know the alternatives, I guess?
 
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Squigly's DP change feels a bit awkward (Though surely in part because I'm not used to it)
How does it look if the emphasis is on the last hit instead of the first? It wouldn't make a difference for scaling, and it's still super-cancelable on the third hit, so it seems like it would be functionally identical while perhaps looking/feeling nicer.
 
zeknife said:
How does it look if the emphasis (And damage) is on the last hit instead of the first?
Bad.

And it does make a difference for scaling any time between unscaled and fully-scaled.
 
For Fukua, the weird rule begins with that she can't cancel armored grab into super without getting hit first compared to any other armored special. That OS was introduced from here.

Being necessary or the fix that preserves the most fun I'm not arguing with. I'm not actually arguing or asking for something else. I just see more of them and don't like it and will just deal with it.
 
Mike_Z said:
Bad.

And it does make a difference for scaling any time between unscaled and fully-scaled.

Previously, each of the hits were kinda synced with the syllables of Squigly's lines (Leviathan! and Draugen Punch!, respectively) which was a nice effect, whereas now she pretty much has time to finish what she's saying by the time the first hit is over

(I'd rather use liver mortis any time between no scaling and full scaling)
 
I'm all for MK Egret being more useful and Head-roll being only strike invincible is consistent with the other safe-ish reversals in the game being vulnerable to throws.
 
Unneeded Valentine buff. It's a good change but it's nothing but a buff. (As opposed to a QoL change or something)

What I do want to happen to Valentine however is to not make Valentine get CH if she is hit out of the recovery of her lvl2 counter super. She already gets hit + loses 2 meter for her gamble, she doesn't need to get CH on top of that.
 
ashxu said:
What I do want to happen to Valentine however is to not make Valentine get CH if she is hit out of the recovery of her lvl2 counter super. She already gets hit + loses 2 meter for her gamble, she doesn't need to get CH on top of that.
It's a zero-frame reversal that has no tell and leads to huge damage. She could stand to get CH out of the recovery even if the CH weren't mostly there just to prevent her from being able to tech throws.

zeknife said:
aesthetics
Couldn't you just stick to factual errors? :^)
 
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That has a somewhat odd input, very costly and may not even give you a nice set up if they get frozen at a weird angle. Also why would you throw Valentine out of the recovery of her lvl2?
 
zeknife said:
Hey, aesthetics are important to Squigly players
I bet most of them wouldn't play her if she wasn't so cute
Nope I play her because orbs
 
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Countersupers are supposed to be throw vulnerable the whole time, not just recovery. Just for the record.
 
mcpeanuts said:
Nope I play her because orbs

Your team makes no sense if you play characters for their orbs.
 
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