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Souls Series and Bloodborne

Agent York said:
Agree with everything you said in the rest of your quote... and about Licia...
some texts point Drangleic and Lindeldt as rival nations so it would make sense that one of them would try to take the Drangleic throne, but has their been any confirmation of it? Usurper only uses the daggers, after all...

Side note, I felt like such an idiot while fighting Licia. I be all like "Bitch! Don't you ever run out of miracles?" and after two long battles ending in ignominious defeat, I figured that approaching her with guard up and backstabbing made VERY short work of her. My problem is that I was under the impression WotG was unblockable.
In any case, she's a character I felt could use a additional moment to flesh out her character a bit more. Maybe have her looming around a NPC she might kill if we don't take her out (like Petrus). Admittedly repetitive. -_-"

But I'll have to be honest, I think no one would say a word of criticism about DSII's cast if we had a Gwynevere expy. Everybody knows she's the reason people don't perma-ragequit at Bert & Ernie. :3

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Also wanted to add, in defense of Skeleton Lord, despite the fight not being all that impressive, those bony bastards have my favorite theme in the OST.

DukeMagus said:
What if some npcs got extra background in the dlcs? We could ask for it on Twitter
The Artorias of the Abyss DLC was about Gwyn's elite knights and Oolacile. If From wanted to do something like that, it could be about Vendrick's invasion of the giants' land. Not as kewl but Vendy also had his posse - Veldstadt, Syan and Raime (can't recall if there's more). Honestly, I'd love to see Drangleic in it's better days with a human Vendrick and Nashandra playing him like a fiddle.
In terms of notable kingdoms and while there are plenty, Lindeldt, Mirrah and Volgen seem to get mentioned the most. On that note,
I wouldn't mind knowing more about Lucatiel. Even if not among my favorites, I thought she was pretty cool.

Speaking of Nashandra, that little bit in the castle where she's yappin' about was quite unexpected. Dark Souls getting juicy plot exposition moments?! º3º
 
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If/When they do dlc, I hope they shine more light on The Four Old Ones. There's next to no context for how they fit into the world. Were they around before or after Vendrick fled and Drangleic fell to ruin? Why are they guarding the Primal Bonfires? Are they the same 4 Great Ones that Vendrick vanquished, or merely the latest part of the cycle? Even by Souls standards, DS2 leaves WAY too many empty explanations in the lore.
 

Is iron flesh still good in this one? I actually stay away from pyromancy because I don't feel like I need it.
 
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Agent York said:
Old Ones
Indeed.
I've also been asking myself a bunch of questions about them not only about where they all stand as you question but also the fact they don't see to be in the same continuity, so to speak. DS1 makes it clear Gwyn was rolling with Nito, Seath and the Witch of Izalith but these don't seem like they all popped up at the same time. Take this quote by Shalquoir:

Are you going to see the Old Ones?
Those four who have grown so incredibly ancient.
They must have sprouted quite a thick coat of moss by now.
For heaven's sake, no-one even knows their names anymore!

And yet - The Duke's Dear, Freja. Loud and clearly named. Though some argue that Freja is a title as it can be translated as Lady...
The Rotten because of his place seems like a primordial god like Nito and the Lost Sinner is clearly a expy of the Witch of Izalith (the bug that crawls out of her mask even looks like the Bed of Chaos' fetus!) so those do look ancient but the Iron King and the Duke of Tseldora? Not so much. Those two, given what they built and how their kingdoms aren't exactly derelict-looking (even if overrun by lava and spiders), don't seem as old.
But anyway, they gotta be older than Vendrick and co. Vendy's posse are all still remembered while these are apparently long forgotten.

And then there's the connections to DS1...
There are connections to DS1 but it's kinda tricky to pin point exactly where it stands because the stronger connections are the prologue and the DLC story that is set in a time before the events of DS1.
The Ancient Dragon's memories that we can access are strongly reminiscent of DS1's prologue where Gwyn takes down the dragons with his Sunlight Spears. That prologue even explicitly says the dragons had scales of stone.

And more revealingly, Nashandra (and maybe the Darklurker) is a fragment of Manus that took human form and gained sentience.
But then again, the stories always had very elaborate medieval architecture going along with primordial deities and all that jazz. It's just that sometimes it's tricky to figure when we are seeing the works of men or the works of gods...
 
Yusuke Urameshi said:

Is iron flesh still good in this one? I actually stay away from pyromancy because I don't feel like I need it.
They have kept it's physical resistance really good, but it slows your walking speed to a crawl and you can't run. So you essentially want to pop this if you think you're going to get surrounded and need to tank the attacks while you focus down as many enemies as you can.

Balder said:
Indeed.
-snip-
And yet - The Duke's Dear, Freja. Loud and clearly named. Though some argue that Freja is a title as it can be translated as Lady...
The Rotten because of his place seems like a primordial god like Nito and the Lost Sinner is clearly a expy of the Witch of Izalith (the bug that crawls out of her mask even looks like the Bed of Chaos' fetus!) so those do look ancient but the Iron King and the Duke of Tseldora? Not so much. Those two, given what they built and how their kingdoms aren't exactly derelict-looking (even if overrun by lava and spiders), don't seem as old.
But anyway, they gotta be older than Vendrick and co. Vendy's posse are all still remembered while these are apparently long forgotten.
-snip-

In the case of the Duke's Dear, Freja
She is the master who created the manscorpions. The great soul you find belongs to the dragon she has wrapped up and is presumably feeding on in the same chamber. Just look up and you can see the dragons skull right above where you find the red soul.
 
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PaperBag_Sniper said:
They have kept it's physical resistance really good, but it slows your walking speed to a crawl and you can't run. So you essentially want to pop this if you think you're going to get surrounded and need to tank the attacks while you focus down as many enemies as you can.
I've never used Iron Flesh because being slow makes me really nervous, but is it useful in PvP situations?
 
PaperBag_Sniper said:
In the case of the Duke's Dear, Freja
She is the master who created the manscorpions. The great soul you find belongs to the dragon she has wrapped up and is presumably feeding on in the same chamber. Just look up and you can see the dragons skull right above where you find the red soul.

Seath the Scaleless? In New Game+ Freja drops an Old Paledrake Soul. Wasn't Seath experimenting with immortality and things of that nature? That soul is also needed to obtain the Crystal Soul Spear sorcery. It's possible that soul is what's left of Seath's lord soul.
 
ruins72 said:
Seath the Scaleless? In New Game+ Freja drops an Old Paledrake Soul. Wasn't Seath experimenting with immortality and things of that nature? That soul is also needed to obtain the Crystal Soul Spear sorcery. It's possible that soul is what's left of Seath's lord soul.
The skeletal structure is way off to be Seath, and if you use the ash mist heart on the skull you enter a dream that shows what the dragon looked like before it decayed to this point. But keeping with the idea that souls have been passed down throughout history the soul of Seath eventually found its way into this dragon which died. Or at least that's my take on the matter.
 
PaperBag_Sniper said:
The skeletal structure is way off to be Seath, and if you use the ash mist heart on the skull you enter a dream that shows what the dragon looked like before it decayed to this point. But keeping with the idea that souls have been passed down throughout history the soul of Seath eventually found its way into this dragon which died. Or at least that's my take on the matter.

It was the crystals that did it for me, tbh. Especially the crystal that grows out of the ground from where the Great Soul fell when you return to the arena.
 
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Yo this is getting too deep, I bought DSII because of the hype.
 
PaperBag_Sniper said:
In the case of the Duke's Dear, Freja
Freja is the Duke's magnum opus, actually. It's a woman's name, possibly a wife or lover who gave herself up for his experiments.
Freja's soul mentions how the Duke became something far beyond human and my personal theory is that he is also a part of Freja, hence the two heads.

Regarding the NG+ souls...
It's clear the souls are references to the souls given to the Lordvessel.
Lost Sinner - Witch of Izalith (who became the Bed of Chaos)
Freja (or if my theory has any merit, the Duke of Tseldora) - Seath (both are Dukes with a penchant for creating monsters)
Old Iron King - The Four Kings (All kings under a greater king. I don't think it's Gwyn.)
The Rotten - Gravelord Nito

Now the question is whether this is just for fanservice or if there's any actual deeper meaning to it, like the Old Ones being reincarnations of the Great Souls? I think the fact that a part of Manus has been reborn as Nashandra validates this.

About the dragon in Freja's chamber, judging by its memories, I believe it's one of the ancient dragons that Gwyn & co. faced.
 
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I remember ENB bringing up the fact that Seath was himself a Duke. I wouldn't be surprised if Freja was one of his experiments from long ago.
 
Balder said:
Freja is the Duke's magnum opus, actually. It's a woman's name, possibly a wife or lover who gave herself up for his experiments.
Freja's soul mentions how the Duke became something far beyond human and my personal theory is that he is also a part of Freja, hence the two heads.

Regarding the NG+ souls...
It's clear the souls are references to the souls given to the Lordvessel.
Lost Sinner - Witch of Izalith (who became the Bed of Chaos)
Freja (or if my theory has any merit, the Duke of Tseldora) - Seath (both are Dukes with a penchant for creating monsters)
Old Iron King - The Four Kings (All kings under a greater king. I don't think it's Gwyn.)
The Rotten - Gravelord Nito

Now the question is whether this is just for fanservice or if there's any actual deeper meaning to it, like the Old Ones being reincarnations of the Great Souls? I think the fact that a part of Manus has been reborn as Nashandra validates this.

About the dragon in Freja's chamber, judging by its memories, I believe it's one of the ancient dragons that Gwyn & co. faced.
I'm inclined to say that it's mostly fanservice. You don't get a lot of these facts until you NG+ those boss fights or encounter some of the NG+ black phantoms. For my part I think that I much prefer the transition between Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1 where both games lores stand alone and only the most tenuous of connections exist. I think Drangleic is a fascinating locale and the war between King Vendrick and the Giants is worthy of it's own standalone story.

The four great spirits could have easily been those derived from giants because it seems like Vendrick attacked the giants first and stole not only the Throne of Want, but some of their power as well. It would also streamline acquiring giants souls a little. I like the idea of entering the slumbering giant's dreams and overall I liked that sequence, but it's a little cheap when you put an arbitrary time limit on them and make the levels so small but small levels is one of my biggest complains for Dark Souls 2. I would have liked to see the giant's dreams be similar to the Painted world; fairly expansive with a few hidden locations, but effectively cut away from the rest of the world geographically.
 
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I got my little cousin to play Dark Souls 2. He's normally a COD kid, but watching him learn the little nuances of the swordplay mechanics of this game brings a tear of joy to my face.
 
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Way to go Yusuke!

Well, after reading this topic and the spoilers, i'm inclined to believe that they'll expand the lore via DLCs... Lots of'em. AAAND maybe we'll get a time/space portal or similar BS to bring Dark Souls 1 characters back (everyone loves solaire and the true onion kinght)
 
DukeMagus said:
Way to go Yusuke!

Well, after reading this topic and the spoilers, i'm inclined to believe that they'll expand the lore via DLCs... Lots of'em. AAAND maybe we'll get a time/space portal or similar BS to bring Dark Souls 1 characters back (everyone loves solaire and the true onion kinght)
but... isnt it hinted that Solaire rekindled the first flame? which it should be so. Sun Bro needs to achieve ultimate Sundom.

\[T]/
 
Sanoblaze said:
but... isnt it hinted that Solaire rekindled the first flame? which it should be so. Sun Bro needs to achieve ultimate Sundom.

\[T]/
It could be any chosen undead who defeated Gwyn. That's the nature of Dark Souls and the many parallel worlds that made up Lordran. In your world it may be Solaire, in mine it was some nameless warrior who was more inclined to sacrifice himself than my chosen undead who chose to usher in the age of darkness.
 
PaperBag_Sniper said:
It could be any chosen undead who defeated Gwyn. That's the nature of Dark Souls and the many parallel worlds that made up Lordran. In your world it may be Solaire, in mine it was some nameless warrior who was more inclined to sacrifice himself than my chosen undead who chose to usher in the age of darkness.
That's one thing that I love and hate about DS in general. The lore is extremely vague. Most of the lore we have comes from fan speculation and deductions, not really anything concrete. At least nothing from From confirming any of it.
 
Denizen said:
I've never used Iron Flesh because being slow makes me really nervous, but is it useful in PvP situations?
As much as people spam high level planet busting spells I wouldn't say it is.
 
Yusuke Urameshi said:
That's one thing that I love and hate about DS in general. The lore is extremely vague. Most of the lore we have comes from fan speculation and deductions, not really anything concrete. At least nothing from From confirming any of it.
That's actually what I really like about the stories, it's part of the mystery. Sort of like piecing together some myths from Egyptian or Roman history - records could be lost, mistranslated, or conflicting and there are plenty of people who are way into it and enjoy discussing what they've found or what they believe.
 
Lucky me, I just got a second Blue Flame in a fraction of the time it took me to get the first!

FULLY UPGRADE DAT SHIT.
DUAL WIELD DAT SHIT.
POWER STANCE DAT SHIT.
GREAT MAGIC WEAPON DAT SHIT.
LAST BUT NOT LEAST THE FULL BLACK ROBES SET.

I JUST UPGRADED FROM ROGUE MAGE TO MAGIC NINJA BITCHES.
 
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Denizen said:
Lucky me, I just got a second Blue Flame in a fraction of the time it took me to get the first!

FULLY UPGRADE DAT SHIT.
DUAL WIELD DAT SHIT.
POWER STANCE DAT SHIT.
GREAT MAGIC WEAPON DAT SHIT.
LAST BUT NOT LEAST THE FULL BLACK ROBES SET.

I JUST UPGRADED FROM ROGUE MAGE TO MAGIC NINJA BITCHES.
Can't stop there, go for crystal magic weapon!
 
Smilax said:
Can't stop there, go for crystal magic weapon!
The problem is that my Attunement is only at 20 so I only have 1 use for Crystal Magic Weapon.

Chameleon though, for Magic Ninja stealthiness.
 
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ruins72 said:
I remember ENB bringing up the fact that Seath was himself a Duke.
He is. The area annexed to Anal Rodeo, The Duke's Archives is just that - his home. Gwyn rewarded Seath with Dukedom for him having sided with the gods against the dragons. He was also Gwyn's BFF, if Frampt is to be trusted.
Now how can a big, blind dragon make use of all those books is beyond me...

Sanoblaze said:
but... isnt it hinted that Solaire rekindled the first flame? which it should be so. Sun Bro needs to achieve ultimate Sundom.

\[T]/
I still want to believe Solaire is Gwyn's banished firstborn trying to make amends. \[T]/


Now here's another head scratcher; while talking to Suturaiido-sensei he says the following:

Pyromancy was created by the ancient witch of fire.
She harnessed the power of flame, and melded it into pyromancy.
The witch led her daughters into war against the Old Ones.
But legends are legends.
What are you prepared to believe? Heh heh…

So there - Old Ones so freakin' old that they battled against Gwyn's posse? Possible if we also consider that Drangleic's ancient dragons are the same ones Gwyn shot down. We know the Lost Sinner tried to kindle the First Flame, perhaps she attempted that during the war or briefly after it (before the Witch of Izalith and her daughters became the way they became).

And Carhillion mentions how sorcery was created by "the great, pale one". Seath created sorcery, it would appear.
 
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I can't follow along with all of this lore so I'm just going to bitch about something I don't like in Dark Souls II.

The coolest weapon in the game is something that I can't keep. The Key to the Embedded was such an awesome weapon but as soon as it's used for its intended purpose, it's gone. I was sitting there scratching my head thinking, "Why would they put this thing in your hands to swing around, only for it to be taken away from you to open a door?" I love keys, I love their purpose, I love their symbolism. I was so psyched to have a fucking Keyblade as a weapon that I was already planning out how I would use it, but then all of a sudden it was gone.

What's up with that!?
 
Denizen said:
I can't follow along with all of this lore so I'm just going to bitch about something I don't like in Dark Souls II.

The coolest weapon in the game is something that I can't keep. The Key to the Embedded was such an awesome weapon but as soon as it's used for its intended purpose, it's gone. I was sitting there scratching my head thinking, "Why would they put this thing in your hands to swing around, only for it to be taken away from you to open a door?" I love keys, I love their purpose, I love their symbolism. I was so psyched to have a fucking Keyblade as a weapon that I was already planning out how I would use it, but then all of a sudden it was gone.

What's up with that!?
First time through you're bound to lose it because you don't know it disappears from your inventory but even then the game isn't necessarily forcing you to use the key for it's intended purpose. It's a really subtle moral decision because most people don't even think about whether or not the key is going to disappear. Instead you see a girl in a cage and decide that if you find a way to free her you'll do it. It's kind of a dick move but apparently you can use a bonfire ascetic to refight the song demon and get another one.
 
Balder said:
He is. The area annexed to Anal Rodeo , The Duke's Archives is just that - his home.

WHAT???
 
PaperBag_Sniper said:
First time through you're bound to lose it because you don't know it disappears from your inventory but even then the game isn't necessarily forcing you to use the key for it's intended purpose. It's a really subtle moral decision because most people don't even think about whether or not the key is going to disappear.
By the time I made it to the cage I knew it would disappear once I would use it. Of course I took the high road and freed the girl but I just wish I didn't have to lose the key in the process.
 
DukeMagus said:
WHAT???
Anor Londo is colloquially called Anal Rodeo because it's the area where the average player will probably die the most, chiefly to the greatbow snipers and Bert & Ernie.


Since we're in the mood to bitch, I'll add my own two cents - fuck these terrorist assholes!
Undead_Citizen.jpg

Right now, dealing with these douchebags is harder than the freakin' Lost Sinner.
 
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I know that after killing an enemy twelve times they stop respawning. Does this imply that with enough time and effort I could render all of Drangleic comletely free of monsters?
 
To any of you people making Boss Weapons, if you think the Looking Glass Knight's Shield looks cool, do yourself a favor and don't get it. I fully upgraded that thing and it turned out barely the same as the shield I already had, and Spell Parying is nowhere near as cool and useful as it seemed in my head. Wasted all my damn Petrified Dragon Bones too... :c
 
Agent York said:
To any of you people making Boss Weapons, if you think the Looking Glass Knight's Shield looks cool, do yourself a favor and don't get it. I fully upgraded that thing and it turned out barely the same as the shield I already had, and Spell Parying is nowhere near as cool and useful as it seemed in my head. Wasted all my damn Petrified Dragon Bones too... :c
Which is weird because I found out the hard way in that boss fight that it reflects anything that hits it. I was expecting a pretty op great shield that would give me some decent resistance to everything.
 
PaperBag_Sniper said:
Which is weird because I found out the hard way in that boss fight that it reflects anything that hits it. I was expecting a pretty op great shield that would give me some decent resistance to everything.
It does have good stats, but considering that there are better or similar shields for much less the cost and resources, it just ended up being a waste of Dragon Bones for me. And yeah, I was expecting it to auto reflect spells like in the boss fight, but NOPE! You've gotta perfectly time the shield slam to bounce them back, and even then good luck having the spell actually hit anything other than the ground on the rebound. Shields that reflect spells should bounce them back to the caster imo, otherwise you could have done the much easier and much less risky route and just dodged it.
 
I did get the LGK Shield...but only because my build can't goof around with the sword offered for its soul. <:3

On the subject of boss weapons, is there any particularly noteworthy ones? Especially for STR builds.
I have a lot of them sitting in my inventory but haven't upgraded a single one. I do plan on toying around with the Covetous Demon Bone Scythe and the Executioner's Lance.
Lost Sinner's sword looked good but like the Chaos Blade, it deals self-damage whenever hitting something.

And speaking of weapons, damn! the Zweihänder sucks ass now. Slow, weighs a ton and I can get much better DPS with the Claymore (which is IMHO the best sword in the game - pokes, damage, BASS CANNON STUN-LOCKS, the works). A slab down the toilet... :/
 
Agent York said:
It does have good stats, but considering that there are better or similar shields for much less the cost and resources, it just ended up being a waste of Dragon Bones for me. And yeah, I was expecting it to auto reflect spells like in the boss fight, but NOPE! You've gotta perfectly time the shield slam to bounce them back, and even then good luck having the spell actually hit anything other than the ground on the rebound. Shields that reflect spells should bounce them back to the caster imo, otherwise you could have done the much easier and much less risky route and just dodged it.
That's what I noticed about the game myself. Once you get the Drangleic shield you don't really need any others until the Dragon Shrine because it's close to the first shield you can get with 100% physical resistance and you don't really need to upgrade it.
 
Balder said:
On the subject of boss weapons, is there any particularly noteworthy ones? Especially for STR builds.
I'm no master of min/maxing, but the Pursuer's Ultra Great Sword has been serving me well. It's standard swing isn't as good as the Zwei, but it's damage output and scaling far outclasses it, especially if you imbue it. I don't have it yet, but the weapon you get from the extra soul you get from The Rotten in NG+ looks like it could be good for a Str+Faith build like mine. Requires a lot of stats to wield, but the damage looks solid on paper. I'll get back to you on that later. Finally there's the stupidly huge Ultra Great Sword you can make from Vendrick's soul. I don't have experience with it, but it looks good on paper. At least you can check the weapon's base stats before buying it.
 
I made a shield from Vendrick's soul. I know...I had one job. (.__.)
Don't have the stats for any of the swords and the shield is relatively light and packs good defenses all round (chiefly 85 Fire DF).
I'm currently using the Drakekeeper's Shield though.

I don't know how you gentlemen tackle PvE but I tend to set soft-cap goals for each run so that I don't accidentally power through areas...which I've nonetheless kinda been doing. Somehow.
Following my DS1 model: NG > SL70 ; NG+ > SL99 ; NG++ > SL125 (though I might go up to 150 this time)

Even if I normally avoid PvP, I do agree with the community's soft cap policy even as it applies to PvE. A build is more fun when it has both strengths and weaknesses.
I think my most focused one in that regard is my Paladin build in DS1. While 50 at both STR and FTH has its advantages, the low DEX meant I couldn't cheese the Anor Londo snipers with poison arrows and had to go YOLO Undead on that part. Fun times!
 
I don't have the money to throw around for XBLA Gold, so I've unfortunately never experienced Dark Souls PvP before in either game. My first character in DS2 started out as a Str build, but by the end he was a mixed Str/Dex build, and now in NG+ he's getting a bit of Int and a crap ton of Faith too lol. Also have enough Equip load combined with two particular rings to still normal roll in full Havels. My only miracle is Great Magic Barrier, because you can't stop The Rock lol.
 
Soft Caps? I didn't know this was a thing, I just started the Ancient Memories and I'm around SL 150.

I still haven't beaten the game.
 
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