• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

The Smash Bros Discussion Thread

Ah, I forgot about Nintendoland, so maybe Takamaru wasn't the best example. And I could see them representing more series, sure, but I don't see them going much deeper into the franchises that aren't relevant to their modern work. Ness and Captain Falcon should be locked in forever, but I don't see there being a need to represent every Duck Hunt and Gumshoe out there, you know?
 
Horseman said:
Wasn't really a complaint, that was just the argument that there shouldn't be more mario reps (since your argument revolved around the mario series having 5 reps when pokemon had 6 in the past, when in reality they had more than 6 in brawl and they have more than 6 in ssb4.)
But, nevertheless, even when a series makes a ridiculous amount of money (a la mario and pokemon) there have to be some boundaries for the amount of reps they get. No matter how much mario sells, smash bros isn't a mario game, and we need that room for other characters, no matter how obscure they are. Now, with that said, I might be able to get behind a mario rep like bowser jr or fawful or dimentio, someone who would have a unique moveset and- in the case of fawful/dimentio- represent the mario RPG series. But Toad? Nah, he's not very unique and we've got so many mario reps already. And Daisy? Waluigi? Why would we have mario reps that barely matter or do anything within the mario canon?

Oh, well I'd like to argue that it wouldn't hurt to have another Mario rep in the form of Bowser Jr. Even when we have something like 9 or more characters from the "Mario universe", we can quite easily separate them into distinctive groups (who often have their own games, therefore have their own official category). Like the one I found problematic was Bowser still being grouped with the Mushroom Emblem when he most definitely feels that he should be a category of his own (Bowser face, duh). Regardless, Bowser Jr. still has a chance. I'm hopeful.

And I agree with your point with Toad and waluigi. They are simply not significant enough or have enough depth to them to warrant a moveset. Now Daisy... No, I'm kidding that's even worse.
 
Smilax said:
Ah, I forgot about Nintendoland, so maybe Takamaru wasn't the best example. And I could see them representing more series, sure, but I don't see them going much deeper into the franchises that aren't relevant to their modern work. Ness and Captain Falcon should be locked in forever, but I don't see there being a need to represent every Duck Hunt and Gumshoe out there, you know?
It's just that all four of those characters hadn't made a real appearance in decades.
Heck, nobody even cared about Ice Climbers before melee. Who actually played the original ice climbers game before they were in smash?
One of the greatest things about smash is that it brings the people who only play Mario or Pokemon games into an environment where they're exposed to all these obscure characters, and honestly I would say it's helped if not outright caused the movement for Mother 3 to be released in north america, the release of fire emblem 7 and subsequent fire emblem games in the west, and kid icarus: uprising.

Rellek said:
Oh, well I'd like to argue that it wouldn't hurt to have another Mario rep in the form of Bowser Jr. Even when we have something like 9 or more characters from the "Mario universe", we can quite easily separate them into distinctive groups (who often have their own games, therefore have their own official category). Like the one I found problematic was Bowser still being grouped with the Mushroom Emblem when he most definitely feels that he should be a category of his own (Bowser face, duh). Regardless, Bowser Jr. still has a chance. I'm hopeful.

And I agree with your point with Toad and waluigi. They are simply not significant enough or have enough depth to them to warrant a moveset. Now Daisy... No, I'm kidding that's even worse.
I would be fine with Bowser Jr, he's unique enough if they give him the paint brush and he would probably be fun to play as. However, if I were given a choice between him and an equally unique character of a lesser known (or just not quite so massive) series, I would nearly always go for the latter.
And, while toad is at least semi-relevant as a mario character, Waluigi and Daisy are basically just extra filler characters for the sports games. I have no idea why people want them so much.
By the way, speaking of paint brush wielding characters... why would anyone support Bandanna Dee before Adeleine? There's a character in the kirby series that can paint life and force it to kill people and you would rather have a character whose powers are essentially owning a spear.
In fact, why isn't Adeleine used more often in kirby games? She would have been a way cooler 4th character in return to dreamland...
 
it's because Addie debuted in the Shimomura Kirby games (DL2, 3, and 64), which sakurai didn't like, so they don't really get acknowledged much these days aside from a few in passing
plus Brawl in the Family keeping the Addie fire alive
 
Horseman said:
I would be fine with Bowser Jr, he's unique enough if they give him the paint brush and he would probably be fun to play as. However, if I were given a choice between him and an equally unique character of a lesser known (or just not quite so massive) series, I would nearly always go for the latter.
And, while toad is at least semi-relevant as a mario character, Waluigi and Daisy are basically just extra filler characters for the sports games. I have no idea why people want them so much.
By the way, speaking of paint brush wielding characters... why would anyone support Bandanna Dee before Adeleine? There's a character in the kirby series that can paint life and force it to kill people and you would rather have a character whose powers are essentially owning a spear.
In fact, why isn't Adeleine used more often in kirby games? She would have been a way cooler 4th character in return to dreamland...
Well, I can understand how you'd like lesser known characters of equal uniqueness. The thing about Smash bros, I believe, isn't to advertise new and lesser known characters in the grand scheme of Nintendo, but rather to allow people to play as their favourite characters that they already know. The bigger, more popular characters with a few oddballs tossed in just to enrich the player's gaming knowledge (Which is very commercial in itself). It's supposed to be a simple "AWW YEAH Little Mac! Ima punch your brains out, get ready!" and "Dude, I've always wanted to have Mario and Peach fight!" type of game that people relate to from their memories. With a lot of the lesser known characters that people want, I feel that it would be a struggle for a large part of the fanbase to recognize. "Who's... Takamura? Never even heard of that guy..." or "Wonder Red... No idea".

However, Adeliene was most certainly awesome! There's gotta be a paintbrush wielding character somewhere in this game. There's just gotta!
 
Rellek said:
Well, I can understand how you'd like lesser known characters of equal uniqueness. The thing about Smash bros, I believe, isn't to advertise new and lesser known characters in the grand scheme of Nintendo, but rather to allow people to play as their favourite characters that they already know. The bigger, more popular characters with a few oddballs tossed in just to enrich the player's gaming knowledge (Which is very commercial in itself). It's supposed to be a simple "AWW YEAH Little Mac! Ima punch your brains out, get ready!" and "Dude, I've always wanted to have Mario and Peach fight!" type of game that people relate to from their memories. With a lot of the lesser known characters that people want, I feel that it would be a struggle for a large part of the fanbase to recognize. "Who's... Takamura? Never even heard of that guy..." or "Wonder Red... No idea".

However, Adeliene was most certainly awesome! There's gotta be a paintbrush wielding character somewhere in this game. There's just gotta!
It doesn't exist specifically to educate people about nintendo history or get them to try obscure retro games, no, but it's been a part of it since smash 64 intentional or not.
And the obscure characters would have to be about 5% of the roster at most for it to work out, because you're right, no one wants to play Nintendo History Trivia: The Game.
But what you're wrong about is the last part. If marth and roy and ness have taught us anything, it's that the reaction isn't to ignore the outlier characters, but to say "hey, this guy looks cool! Wow, he's pretty fun to play as! I wonder what game he's from?"

Jutsei said:
I'm still hoping for Bandanna Dee.
...Huh, a thought.
What if the next Newcomer trailer shows Meta Knight first, then at the end Bandanna Dee shows up?
They can't do two surprise double character trailers. It just loses the shock value after they've done it once, especially if they're doing the exact same formula (disappointing character reveal first, surprise unexpected character second.)

southpawper said:
This fucking thing
Literally the third time someone has posted this.
 
Rellek said:
We've already got sufficient evidence to say Ness and Falcon are returning. Ness has the Franklin badge in there, Mr. Saturn and other such reps from his series and Falcon's rather obvious as a newcomer and Sakurai's already talked about Falcon Punches in interviews. It's safe to say they'll be unlockables but still present in-game.

I mean, yeah, that's what I was trying to say.
Ness and Falcon'll probably be secret characters, and if they're secret characters there'll probably be more secret characters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rellek
Jutsei said:
Really, now the sheer fact of Customizable Movesets is putting the future of other clones into question.

But then again, Link & Toon Link (as well as Luigi, but he's Luigi)
Luigi has an entirely different final smash and down special.
Toon link is way too small to be a link costume. He has entirely different animations.
Falco and Lucas don't got shit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jutsei
I wonder just how many options you'll have with the custom move sets
when's Ice Missiles for Samus
and power Bombs
and wide shots
 
Horseman said:
Luigi has an entirely different final smash and down special.
Toon link is way too small to be a link costume. He has entirely different animations.
Falco and Lucas don't got shit.
Fair enough.
Kinda makes me really worried about Wolf though.

Though thankfully this also puts Ganondorf in danger, but we know he's probably finally getting those swords.
I hope he gets to keep that face explosion though.
Shit's so raw
 
Jutsei said:
Kinda makes me really worried about Wolf though.
Wolf is way way way way WAY too different to be a fox costume. I don't think the customized movesets are that diverse.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jutsei
Ah, the mysteries about Light's free time has finally been solved.

Light_draws_Kirby.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cybermanworf, Lavama and josshu
Smilax said:
Well Mother/Earthbound merchandise still gets released in Japan, so there has to be some market for it. That being said, I think we would be fine just having Ness as the only Earthboundy person. Personally I'm a huge fan of the series, I would love to see Kumatora or Pokey or someone (but mostly Kumatora), but there haven't been any new games since 2006 - it would be like adding Takamaru, Geno, or the Excitebike racer.
But Masked Man, he heart breaks in
 
  • Like
Reactions: DDB and Smilax
Horseman said:
It doesn't exist specifically to educate people about nintendo history or get them to try obscure retro games, no, but it's been a part of it since smash 64 intentional or not.
And the obscure characters would have to be about 5% of the roster at most for it to work out, because you're right, no one wants to play Nintendo History Trivia: The Game.
But what you're wrong about is the last part. If marth and roy and ness have taught us anything, it's that the reaction isn't to ignore the outlier characters, but to say "hey, this guy looks cool! Wow, he's pretty fun to play as! I wonder what game he's from?"
Of course it isn't to specifically educate, but it most certainly educates you on characters that ARE in, that's for sure. A plethora of trophies that outline release dates, consoles, background info on almost every fighter's universe. Other than Ice Climbers and G&W, everyone's got a full trophy gallery.

And am I REALLY wrong about that last part? Marth Roy and Ness were all from games that are popular in Japan which, coincidentally, is where Smash comes from. So all the Japanese are going "Dude! I've always wanted to play as Lucas!" or "Yes! Marth's the coolest swordsman ever!", "Nope, think again. Roy's game was way better, bro."

Of course they wouldn't say those exact things, especially not in english, but you get what I'm saying.
 
Roy himself is a pretty shitty lord, though
he only gets good with his
20 use sword of seals
 
Rellek said:
And am I REALLY wrong about that last part? Marth Roy and Ness were all from games that are popular in Japan which, coincidentally, is where Smash comes from. So all the Japanese are going "Dude! I've always wanted to play as Lucas!" or "Yes! Marth's the coolest swordsman ever!", "Nope, think again. Roy's game was way better, bro."
I'm talking about the reactions of americans playing melee in the early 2000's. Obviously the characters were added because their series are beloved in japan, but in america they were VERY obscure- but when people saw them they didn't get confused and attempt to avoid them, they started pressuring nintendo to translate their games.
 
Horseman said:
Luigi has an entirely different final smash and down special.
Toon link is way too small to be a link costume. He has entirely different animations.
Falco and Lucas don't got shit.
I'd say Falco has changed enough in Brawl to warrant his own slot. Just further tweak some moves to be more bird-like and he'll be great! And for the record, Falco shares very few moves with Fox with the majority of those being the special moves (Though I can't imagine them changing the reflector or laser at all). There's only 6 other moves that are remotely the same as Fox (dtilt, ftilt, dair, uair, dsmash, and usmash) and all of them have greatly differing properties.

This assumption always irks me :(

Horseman said:
I'm talking about the reactions of americans playing melee in the early 2000's. Obviously the characters were added because their series are beloved in japan, but in america they were VERY obscure- but when people saw them they didn't get confused and attempt to avoid them, they started pressuring nintendo to translate their games.
Yes, because the world revolves around America and what Americans want and what Americans like.
 
I... like Falco too... That's why I need to defend him from those who believe he's a clone :D
 
Rellek said:
I'd say Falco has changed enough in Brawl to warrant his own slot. Just further tweak some moves to be more bird-like and he'll be great! And for the record, Falco shares very few moves with Fox with the majority of those being the special moves (Though I can't imagine them changing the reflector or laser at all). There's only 6 other moves that are remotely the same as Fox (dtilt, ftilt, dair, uair, dsmash, and usmash) and all of them have greatly differing properties.

This assumption always irks me :(
Lucas has different moves too. In fact, he probably has more of an original moveset than falco does.
They just don't have a ton of original moves, and if they got their original counterpart's moveset exactly it wouldn't be jarring.

Rellek said:
I... like Falco too... That's why I need to defend him from those who believe he's a clone :D
He's still a clone regardless of the half or so of his normals that aren't conceptually reused from fox. If you don't count falco as a clone, the smash series doesn't really have clones by your definition- Lucas and Ganondorf and Pichu are pretty different from their original counterparts, heck even Dr.Mario has some different normals and alternate properties on his attacks.
 
Horseman said:
Lucas has different moves too. In fact, he probably has more of an original moveset than falco does.
They just don't have a ton of original moves, and if they got their original counterpart's moveset exactly it wouldn't be jarring.


He's still a clone regardless of the half or so of his normals that aren't conceptually reused from fox. If you don't count falco as a clone, the smash series doesn't really have clones by your definition- Lucas and Ganondorf and Pichu are pretty different from their original counterparts, heck even Dr.Mario has some different normals and alternate properties on his attacks.
I agree with Lucas. That's why I didn't bring him up. He's obviously not a clone, just look at him. So they both use psy magnet and PK Thunder, big whoop. DK and Bowser both use a spinning upb attack so they must be clones.

And that's the funny thing about clones. Pichu is a semi-clone, Ganondorf (melee) is a full clone, Falco (melee) is a full-clone and Dr. Mario is a full clone. Here's how: Ganon, Falco and Dr. Mario had the exact same animations as their original counterparts only with altered physics and properties. I do believe that even the bone and hitbox data was the same (I've read that it is, but I haven't confirmed). Pichu has an altered moveset to accommodate his differing model data but still retains all the moves that he can possibly physically perform without looking terrible (usmash backflipping Pichu? How would that tail even...).

Luigi is borderline semi-clone. He's a special case that keeps a vast majority of normals from Mario, but 2 completely different specials.
 
suprisingly Pichu has big hitboxes despite tiny tail, Pichu also has the strongest F Smash and Side B can kill with a decent charge
 
Really on that Side Smash? That does not sound accurate somehow... Dr. Mario's and even Bowser's seems more likely...
 
Rellek said:
Really on that Side Smash? That does not sound accurate somehow... Dr. Mario's and even Bowser's seems more likely...
yah i didnt believe it either, it is slightly stronger than Marth's Tipper
 
You know, I just realized with that For Glory thing: if the Smash team is making an effort to acknowledge the tourney scene this time around, and if Melee's going to be in EVO...

There's a very real possibility that someone at Nintendo (maybe even Sakurai himself) could go to EVO.

If they do, the Melee folks better tell 'em their opinions on the how the tournament stuff should work and we should show off skullgirls to them plz
 
I like that instead of just slapping Final Destination in "For Glory" and calling it a day, they went as far as to provide different versions of the stage that resemble other stages. Even competitive players probably get bored at staring at the same stage all the time.
 
I'm positive that part of the direct was more or less

"Hey, do you Smash players like Final Destination?"

"Neither do we!"
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rellek
I just hope later on they add more actual stages to For Glory mode. From what I've heard most people actually consider Battlefield the most fair stage since FD's lack of platforms makes it easy for campers to abuse.
 
I think having a few stages selectable in For Glory mode besides FD sounds like the best way to do it; but this is Nintendo, they're not going to engineer the game such that they can add useful features like that in later and they certainly aren't going to listen to fans right now.
 
It is still in development. Plus, this thing seems like it's mostly a Wii U centric feature, and that's coming out in Winter, so they got some time.

Did they confirm whether or not For Glory is in the 3DS game yet?
 
The way they're being coy about how the 3DS version "will also have online" indicates to me that they might be handling things differently. I only watched the Direct once but I don't recall hearing confirmation of what online features are in the 3DS version exactly.
 
Nap1400 said:
It is still in development. Plus, this thing seems like it's mostly a Wii U centric feature, and that's coming out in Winter, so they got some time.

Did they confirm whether or not For Glory is in the 3DS game yet?
I can't imagine why not.

This makes me think though about the separate release dates. We get a cool mode in the form of Smash Run (which is perfect for handheld because that game type is fast, fun and really easy to play with friends on your break period or whatever, the bus, I don't give a crap) Anyways, since that kind of game is more suited for 3DS, it's a possibility that while still being included in the Wii U version, there will be yet another special game mode that can be played locally. It's seems highly possible and I'm eager to learn more about it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back