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The Smash Bros Discussion Thread

What about the Pacman in Mario Kart?
Mario_vs._Pac-man_in_Mario_Kart_GP..jpg
 
Jutsei said:
...
Wait, are you fucking SERIOUS?
ARE YOU FUCKING SHITTING ME RIGHT NOW!?
IS THIS HOW STRONG TUMBLR AND SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIORS HAVE BECOME
How is this like the line crossed where social justice as gone too far? I actually find that point pretty valid, although the actual point should be "literally every human in the mario universe is white" but you know baby steps.
I mean, there's definitely a point where it's too much (like when there's plenty of different races in a series but they're going "I am a turkish man I would like the turkish people to be represented in mario kart", I mean this is mario kart not epcot center) but when literally every human character in your universe is caucasian I think it could use a little diversity here and there. They add like 50 new characters in every mario RPG so I'm pretty sure they could fit a human that's not white somewhere in there.
Not going to outright declare nintendo racist for it, though.

Jutsei said:
Sadly, it's still most likely Pac-Man since he's iconic as fuck.
See, I won't deny that, but there's a problem.
He's not iconic to nintendo. He isn't from their consoles and by the time he was ported to the nes he was past his prime. Megaman, Simon Belmont, even unlikely 3rd parties like bill contra, those are the characters I want because they found success on nintendo consoles. They're a part of nintendo history. At the very least sonic was important to this as well, both as the famous mario competitor and because he was forced to depend on nintendo consoles after sega got dedded. But pacman? Really? You just don't make the connection, if you were explaining the success of megaman you're at least going to say "nes" once or twice, if you're explaining sonic you're guaranteed to say "mario" and "nintendo" like 100 times, if you're explaining pacman- like, classic retro pacman that everyone knows and not shitty new pacman that everyone hates- you probably aren't going to mention nintendo.
Not that I think he's unlikely, he's just shit.
 
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gold163 said:
He might be referring to this abomination

That unfortunately, is exactly what I'm referring to.
 
Horseman said:
How is this like the line crossed where social justice as gone too far? I actually find that point pretty valid, although the actual point should be "literally every human in the mario universe is white" but you know baby steps.
I mean, there's definitely a point where it's too much (like when there's plenty of different races in a series but they're going "I am a turkish man I would like the turkish people to be represented in mario kart", I mean this is mario kart not epcot center) but when literally every human character in your universe is caucasian I think it could use a little diversity here and there. They add like 50 new characters in every mario RPG so I'm pretty sure they could fit a human that's not white somewhere in there.
Not going to outright declare nintendo racist for it, though.
*cough*cough
Il-Piantissimo-Running.jpg
 
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Horseman said:
See, I won't deny that, but there's a problem.
He's not iconic to nintendo. He isn't from their consoles and by the time he was ported to the nes he was past his prime. Megaman, Simon Belmont, even unlikely 3rd parties like bill contra, those are the characters I want because they found success on nintendo consoles. They're a part of nintendo history. At the very least sonic was important to this as well, both as the famous mario competitor and because he was forced to depend on nintendo consoles after sega got dedded. But pacman? Really? You just don't make the connection, if you were explaining the success of megaman you're at least going to say "nes" once or twice, if you're explaining sonic you're guaranteed to say "mario" and "nintendo" like 100 times, if you're explaining pacman- like, classic retro pacman that everyone knows and not shitty new pacman that everyone hates- you probably aren't going to mention nintendo.
Not that I think he's unlikely, he's just shit.


I am going to take this post and frame it on my wall and take a pictures of it at every conceivable angle whenever someone vouches for Pacman in Smash Bros.
 
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Horseman said:
How is this like the line crossed where social justice as gone too far? I actually find that point pretty valid, although the actual point should be "literally every human in the mario universe is white" but you know baby steps.
I mean, there's definitely a point where it's too much (like when there's plenty of different races in a series but they're going "I am a turkish man I would like the turkish people to be represented in mario kart", I mean this is mario kart not epcot center) but when literally every human character in your universe is caucasian I think it could use a little diversity here and there. They add like 50 new characters in every mario RPG so I'm pretty sure they could fit a human that's not white somewhere in there.
Not going to outright declare nintendo racist for it, though.
All of the human characters except for Waluigi (who's never been in the main series iirc) and Rosalina are over 2 decades old and have been there since pretty much the beginning. It's not like the mario universe is constantly adding all white, humans every time a game comes out. Nintendo rarely adds humanoid characters to the Mario universe; there's a fifteen year gap between Wario and Rosalina. Plus Nintendo has characters of color in their other franchises (pokemon, punchout, mii's, animal crossing, Metroid, Xenoblade, etc), so it kinda seems silly to complain about a single Nintendo franchise. And did they even count Mii's? Mine is brown skinned...

I mean I'm all for diversity. I like seeing people of my color in games and would like to see a brown skinned character in the Mario universe (besides those Sultans/Kings from SM3) in the future, but I dont agree with the logic that writer used. I want diversity, but not at the expense of quality. I dont want the Mario universe to become diluted by adding too many characters [looks at sonic and friends], but that is exactly what adding color purely for the sake of color would do. If/When they add more color I want it to be well done. I want the characters to fit and be a worthy addition to the universe, not just a skin color to please people.

EDIT:
Calypsx said:
You know, it's possible to identify problems even in games you love while still enjoying them. I think Skullgirls takes its fanservice way too far, I still enjoy the game and play it a lot though. I think it would be nice to have another important human main character in the Mario universe who isn't white, yet I still enjoy the Mario series and the games Nintendo makes.

The important part is seeing and identifying something you like may have flaws, you can still enjoy them though.

All of my favorite games have problems, and admitting to them doesn't make Nintendo racist, all it does is teach others to be more aware. Things can be done about it and can be worked towards in the future with that awareness.
This I agree with. But there a difference between making a note and complaining that I find the author of that article doesnt understand
 
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LordTerminal said:
0_______o Why do his pecs look like boobs?
That's a rather silly question.

As for this discussion on racial equality in games, it's a wild goose chase. If they're not complaining about one thing, they'll find something else to complain about and they just ran out of other shit to complain about (mind you they were likely just temporarily bored of those subjects). So I say to chill out, enjoy the game, if you can't enjoy it, 1. Don't buy it or 2. Go for a walk, come back and realize how silly and pointless it is to argue about that.
 
Covenant said:
All of the human characters except for Waluigi (who's never been in the main series iirc) and Rosalina are over 2 decades old and have been there since pretty much the beginning. It's not like the mario universe is constantly adding all white, humans every time a game comes out. Nintendo rarely adds humanoid characters to the Mario universe; there's a fifteen year gap between Wario and Rosalina. Plus Nintendo has characters of color in their other franchises (pokemon, punchout, mii's, animal crossing, Metroid, Xenoblade, etc), so it kinda seems silly to complain about a single Nintendo franchise. And did they even count Mii's? Mine is brown skinned...
I'm not asking them to roll in the ethnicity bus and have a character of every race (like I said, this is mario kart not epcott center) but whenever a new human mario character is introduced it wouldn't hurt (both in terms of inclusion and variety in character design) to make them, you know, not white.

Rellek said:
That's a rather silly question.

As for this discussion on racial equality in games, it's a wild goose chase. If they're not complaining about one thing, they'll find something else to complain about and they just ran out of other shit to complain about (mind you they were likely just temporarily bored of those subjects). So I say to chill out, enjoy the game, if you can't enjoy it, 1. Don't buy it or 2. Go for a walk, come back and realize how silly and pointless it is to argue about that.
That's stupid.
I understand saying this for some of the more radical ones (pretty much applies to every movement ever) but you're grouping a lot of logical people with fair points with them and dismissing all of them out of hand.
 
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I'd agree with them a whole lot if they were referring to every anime fighter to ever exist, ever.
 
Goodbye18000 said:
What about the Pacman in Mario Kart?
That Mario Kart yes, but the new Arcade Mario Kart had the modern look which I honestly like better than the World one. What is it about the anniversary look that you guys hate so much?
 
TechPowah said:
That Mario Kart yes, but the new Arcade Mario Kart had the modern look which I honestly like better than the World one. What is it about the anniversary look that you guys hate so much?
IT'S NOT THE OLD ONE. Therefore, it automatically sucks. /sarcasm
 
Super Technically, the World look isn't the "Old" one either, that one should be hated too. /Furthersarcasm
 
People had time to get used to that one. Also, it's very similar to the Pac-Man artwork on the old cabinets (especially Ms. Pac-Man).
 
Touching ever so slightly back onto the diversity topic...

Am I the only one who misses tanned/darker skinned(?) Daisy?
05.jpg


EDIT:
It just hit me....WHY THE HECK HAVE WE NOT GOTTEN ANY PAPER MARIO-related ASSIST TROPHIES/ANYTHING (aside from trophies/stickers)?

From the first two games of course.
 
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TailsWorld1 said:
Am I the only one who misses tanned/darker skinned(?) Daisy?
Nope.

Also, is it just me, or does the darker skin compliment her other colors better than her current skin color?
 
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Horseman said:
That's stupid.
I understand saying this for some of the more radical ones (pretty much applies to every movement ever) but you're grouping a lot of logical people with fair points with them and dismissing all of them out of hand.
The discussion is stupid. Not the people talking about it.
 
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Rellek said:
The discussion is stupid. Not the people talking about it.
The discussion isn't inherently stupid, though. That's what I'm trying to say.
People see super radical social justice bloggers saying stupid shit and assume everyone on the same side as them is saying the same obviously wrong stuff. And I'm really sick of it. No, I don't think the guys at nintendo are actually actively trying to exclude other races from their games. But I do think they can be really short sighted when it comes to this stuff.
Nonetheless, I think that smash bros and mario kart and other crossover/spin-off games are terrible examples since they're not making original characters. If you want an african character in mario kart you need to get an african character into a super mario game. The same goes for smash bros; there aren't that many female characters because nintendo has way more male characters, the humans are all white because they make almost no characters that aren't white, I don't understand what you expect sakurai to do about it.
Besides making drill dozer playable, of course. please sakurai please
 
The discussion isn't inherently stupid but it's also not important in the same ways that people are making it seem. I think that the approach to diversity in video games that suggests all games should meet some arbitrary minimum standard of diversity is actually self-destructive to its own ends. Put another way I think that games in general could serve to be more diverse but at the same time I don't agree with all the critics who claim that the games we have now or that the games we had in the past should suffer some sort of critical consequence as a result of not being progressive enough -- people are going to buy what they're comfortable buying anyway and I don't think it's a stretch to say that the vast majority of consumers buy games on the basis of whether they're good products, not whether they're inclusive or not. Furthermore "diversity" is a subjective and relative measurement and it's not as if there isn't already a current and very vocal movement towards diversity in games in general.

tl;dr I don't see why Smash is somehow a worse game for Nintendo's conservative approach to character design, and "diversity" or lack thereof isn't something that occurs within a vacuum. I'm not saying that it shouldn't change, but that all signs point to it not currently needing to, because despite the clamor for it the market hasn't demonstrated that it's actually ready to embrace diversity. Otherwise, all of the smaller and independently-developed games that tout and proclaim diversity from the mountaintops would be selling just for the sake of having it, but they're not because it's not actually as crucial to the experience of playing video games in general as critics would have you believe.
 
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Horseman said:
The discussion isn't inherently stupid, though. That's what I'm trying to say.
People see super radical social justice bloggers saying stupid shit and assume everyone on the same side as them is saying the same obviously wrong stuff. And I'm really sick of it. No, I don't think the guys at nintendo are actually actively trying to exclude other races from their games. But I do think they can be really short sighted when it comes to this stuff.
Nonetheless, I think that smash bros and mario kart and other crossover/spin-off games are terrible examples since they're not making original characters. If you want an african character in mario kart you need to get an african character into a super mario game. The same goes for smash bros; there aren't that many female characters because nintendo has way more male characters, the humans are all white because they make almost no characters that aren't white, I don't understand what you expect sakurai to do about it.
Besides making drill dozer playable, of course. please sakurai please

What I'm getting from this is Il Pantisimo for Mario Kart (that would actually be really awesome, he could just run alongside the karts).

All joking aside, I do actually entirely agree.
Kind of.
Mostly.
I just,
aren't most of the characters, moreso the Smash characters than the Mario Kart characters I guess since Mario and Luigi ARE Italian and that probably extends to Wario and Waluigi, Japanese and not white?
I mean, Link and Zelda and Marth I guess are from worlds based on medieval Europe, but I always thought they were more heavily inspired by Eastern Asia, at least in their facial features and stuff.
Little Mac is American but I don't know if he's entirely white, especially in Punch-Out!! Wii.
Peach and Rosalina and Mega Man and especially Villager all appear to be cartoonish and kinda simplified to the point where it's harder to tell exactly what race they are, but
I dunno, is it entirely accurate to say they're all white, I mean,
there's certainly not an abundance of black people or even humans with darker skin, but most of the games are Japanese developed so it would make a lot more sense for the characters themselves to be Japanese or at least Eastern Asian as opposed to white.
 
like I said
Mac is clearly sicilian-american
he's got some dark in him
 
HEY GUYS

CAN SOMEONE CALL A PLUMBER CAUSE I FOUND A LEAK

uJHJyN1.jpg

Yeah, it's prob fake cause of the Red Logo that hasn't been used for years but those GameCube games would be amazing. I'd finally get to play Melee myself.
Though I just bought a copy of FZero GX myself... for $5.
 
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Screw that, I see SMT x FE.
 
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well hey
gotta make it believable
i mean i'd probably believe a leak like that
*wiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnk*
 
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gold163 said:
The discussion isn't inherently stupid but it's also not important in the same ways that people are making it seem. I think that the approach to diversity in video games that suggests all games should meet some arbitrary minimum standard of diversity is actually self-destructive to its own ends. Put another way I think that games in general could serve to be more diverse but at the same time I don't agree with all the critics who claim that the games we have now or that the games we had in the past should suffer some sort of critical consequence as a result of not being progressive enough -- people are going to buy what they're comfortable buying anyway and I don't think it's a stretch to say that the vast majority of consumers buy games on the basis of whether they're good products, not whether they're inclusive or not. Furthermore "diversity" is a subjective and relative measurement and it's not as if there isn't already a current and very vocal movement towards diversity in games in general.
Completely depends on the critical lens you use on whether this is relevant, but I get what you're saying. Still, using only white characters results in poor character variety an awful lot, which is pretty obvious when you look at the cast- especially the princesses, since peach and daisy can't even manage to pass the silhoutte test, and I've seen people who don't know their mario characters super well get rosalina and peach confused a ton.

TheMightyBox said:
What I'm getting from this is Il Pantisimo for Mario Kart (that would actually be really awesome, he could just run alongside the karts).

All joking aside, I do actually entirely agree.
Kind of.
Mostly.
I just,
aren't most of the characters, moreso the Smash characters than the Mario Kart characters I guess since Mario and Luigi ARE Italian and that probably extends to Wario and Waluigi, Japanese and not white?
I mean, Link and Zelda and Marth I guess are from worlds based on medieval Europe, but I always thought they were more heavily inspired by Eastern Asia, at least in their facial features and stuff.
Little Mac is American but I don't know if he's entirely white, especially in Punch-Out!! Wii.
Peach and Rosalina and Mega Man and especially Villager all appear to be cartoonish and kinda simplified to the point where it's harder to tell exactly what race they are, but
I dunno, is it entirely accurate to say they're all white, I mean,
there's certainly not an abundance of black people or even humans with darker skin, but most of the games are Japanese developed so it would make a lot more sense for the characters themselves to be Japanese or at least Eastern Asian as opposed to white.
Didn't you just list pretty much every human character in the exceptions list?
Nonetheless, in anime style Asians and Caucasians look really similar when they don't try to make the difference obvious. I'll give it to you that some of them are probably intended to be asian and not white, but damn it's hard to tell when their faces have been cartoonified.

Ruin said:
my friend made that
I actually helped my friend make that leak
Ruin's close friend... SHIGERU MIYAMOTO!
 
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Horseman said:
Didn't you just list pretty much every human character in the exceptions list?
Nonetheless, in anime style Asians and Caucasians look really similar when they don't try to make the difference obvious. I'll give it to you that some of them are probably intended to be asian and not white, but damn it's hard to tell when their faces have been cartoonified.

Exceptions list?
No, that was the list of examples.
Like,
I was saying those characters, while having a debateable ethnicity, don't look white, or at least not purely white.
 
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Horseman said:
Ruin's close friend... SHIGERU MIYAMOTO!


I prefer this variation on that:

On topic: I'm not trusting that leak to be true. There is no way Sakurai is going to release the 3DS game in July. He's gonna hold out as long as he can so that the game has as much as possible.

I also don't believe Ruin made that either. Because I'm starting to not trust some of you around here when news hits a dry spell.
 
hey believe whatever you want
the truth will be revealed in due time, my friends
 
LordTerminal said:
I also don't believe Ruin made that either. Because I'm starting to not trust some of you around here when news hits a dry spell.
I have proof of Filia being in the game
this will be announced during the next salty, along with the reveal of skullgirls encore wii u.
 
Horseman said:
I have proof of Filia being in the game
this will be announced during the next salty, along with the reveal of skullgirls encore wii u.

Yeah, I call bullshit
because I have proof that it will be Peacock who is revealed next Salty along with Skullgirls Encore for WiiU and the reveal that Gandraya will be a guest fighter on that version only.
 
Pic of the day.

Under certain circumstances, the creatures on this planet appear to grow larger and go berserk.

The Pikmin and I must be cautious lest we lose our heads to these beasts.

zlCfzR8aGT8BdV00Vj
 
Oh goodness... Now we're RPing...

They really aren't revealing anything significant until E3. Preorder cancelled.
 
Oh snap, I just remembered that Luigi's Final Smash uses the Poltergust 5000 now.

And then promptly remembered it wasn't shown in the Direct.

Dr.-Who.gif
 
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