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The Smash Bros Discussion Thread

This is just fucking stupid. There's no way this could ever be properly balanced, which would exclude them from competitive play. I was hoping that they would be competitively viable, but this among other things makes it seam highly unlikely.
 
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If it isn't a character reveal, it's 'filler' to a majority of people on Smashboards.
 
Jutsei said:
Someone on Smashboards said they're wasting time and effort by putting all this work into Mii Fighters.
Wow, rude.

They ARE wasting their time and effort by putting all of this work into Mii fighters. Before this update it at least felt like there was some sort of chance that Miis would be interesting for competitive play.

Don't get me wrong, I'll mess around with Miis either way. I play a lot of casual Brawl matches after all. Hell, it's 3 in the morning and I'm literally playing Brawl with a friend right now. But seeing this update is just sad. They're literally putting development resources into what are essentially 3 different characters that are more than likely going to be ignored for competitive play. I like casual smash as much as the next guy, but there's a way to develop the game to cater to both competitive and casual players. This is not that way. This literally just ignores all aspects of competitive play in favor of a mechanic that doesn't really add anything to the game.
 
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TechPowah said:
zlCfzSF2u8gDHswnsA


"Pic of the day. Here's Nabbit, who appears in the Mushroom Kingdom U stage. You can't see him, but Luigi is inside Nabbit's bag."

Hide yo Wigglers, hide yo Cheep-Cheeps, Nabbit be snatchin' errybody in here!

Oh I missed this. This is good.
 
I'm a competitive player, yet I feel the need to remind people that like 90% of the game's content was already a "waste of time" to people like us. Let this s*** rock for the people that want to have fun with it.
 
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I honestly don't understand why everyone thinks this feature will be broken.
I can kind of understand why people think it won't be competitively viable (but at the same time isn't it pretty easy to transfer Mii's using a QR code), but like,

if you're going to make your Mii Fighter look at all like the actual Mii it's based on, you have to include size, or at the very least height differences, and once you do that you've already got variations of hitboxes which instantly make smaller Mii's just superior to any other type.
But this way seems more balanced to me, so that smaller Mii's are faster but weaker (while having a smaller hitbox), while larger Mii's are slower but stronger (and presumably heavier as well).
It honestly seems more balanced I don't get why it's bad.
 
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ugh

I thought this was a really cool update until I read the comments on different forums

If I see the words "Banned", "Broken" or "Balanced" one more time I'm going to flip.

Also, people who are pissed off that they can't use Mii's on ONE MODE (online with strangers) making it seem like they're super restricted.

guh smash fans why you make me wanna hate you
 
Goodbye18000 said:
ugh

I thought this was a really cool update until I read the comments on different forums

If I see the words "Banned", "Broken" or "Balanced" one more time I'm going to flip.

Also, people who are pissed off that they can't use Mii's on ONE MODE (online with strangers) making it seem like they're super restricted.

guh smash fans why you make me wanna hate you

Banana
 
RemiKz said:
I'm a competitive player, yet I feel the need to remind people that like 90% of the game's content was already a "waste of time" to people like us. Let this s*** rock for the people that want to have fun with it.
Exactly my reasoning. If competetive players don't want items or certain stages for balance issues that's there prerogative, but in a non-competitive setting I like to have my items on high and my stages varied. No reason to go about bashing a feature you don't like if you don't plan to use it but maybe 90% of everyone else does.
 
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PaperBag_Sniper said:
No reason to go about bashing a feature you don't like if you don't plan to use it but maybe 90% of everyone else does.

I'd say it's more of an 80/20 split for casual/competitive, but that 20% really likes to forget about the 80% that isn't on the internet examining every single new pic of the day and commenting about it. I know my 12 year old sister is super excited for this. She can finally play as herself and anyone else. She loves customizing stuff.

It's just a shame how so many things are glossed over as "stupid" and "unbalanced".
 
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Goodbye18000 said:
I'd say it's more of an 80/20 split for casual/competitive, but that 20% really likes to forget about the 80% that isn't on the internet examining every single new pic of the day and commenting about it. I know my 12 year old sister is super excited for this. She can finally play as herself and anyone else. She loves customizing stuff.

It's just a shame how so many things are glossed over as "stupid" and "unbalanced".
Like Flat Zone :PUN:
 
So the vibe I'm getting here is the Smash community bashes things a lot?
So they're basically the L4D community in a nutshell?
 
Sadistic Cyanide said:
So the vibe I'm getting here is the Smash community bashes things a lot?

almost everything is

#BANNED

Hell, there was talk about BANNING SOME FINAL DESTINATION VERSIONS because SOME HAVE FLAT LEDGES AS OPPOSED TO NORMAL FINAL DESTINATION SHAPES.

It's painful.
 
I'd post "...", but that'd get me a slap on the wrist from a mod.
 
I can sort of see where the annoyance with the Mii size/stats addition is coming from, even though I'm not nearly as frustrated with it.

Imagine, per say, if Skullgirls allowed you to change Filia's hitbox size, damage output, and speed before a match. The reason each character is consistent in Fighting Games is because it gives each character a set of (mostly, if you include updates) unchanging strengths and weaknesses that players will always be familiar with, and even if you do not view Smash as a viable Fighting Game series, it would still make sense to keep them consistent for balances sake (lest we get specific Mii Fighter builds as broken as Meta Knight).

I personally like the size thing, I think it's a cool addition, but I can understand why people would have liked to have the stats be consistent for the Mii Fighters.
 
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Like yeah, there's 729 different version of Mii (someone did the math) but honestly, the unpredictability is a cool feature exclusive to Mii. That's it's gimmick.

And besides, if worse comes to worse, tournaments can have a default Mii for each of medium size and all the first special moves. If they're not going to use custom moves in tournaments as is (even though I think they should), they wouldn't be using this either. It doesn't affect them so stop bashing it and saying it's "unbalanced". All games are unbalanced.
 
The thing I don't get is this. The devs have clearly established size and weight tiers for how Mii's of different sizes will function and people act like they won't have an immediate visual indicator of which categories a certain mii will fall under. How is this going to be the end all be all of tournament viability of Mii's when they seem to conform to a very simple system?
 
Goodbye18000 said:
almost everything is

#BANNED

Hell, there was talk about BANNING SOME FINAL DESTINATION VERSIONS because SOME HAVE FLAT LEDGES AS OPPOSED TO NORMAL FINAL DESTINATION SHAPES.

It's painful.

Where'd you hear that?
I'd only heard people upset that the only hazard free versions of stages were flat and blatantly favored some characters.

juju_for_president said:
I can sort of see where the annoyance with the Mii size/stats addition is coming from, even though I'm not nearly as frustrated with it.

Imagine, per say, if Skullgirls allowed you to change Filia's hitbox size, damage output, and speed before a match. The reason each character is consistent in Fighting Games is because it gives each character a set of (mostly, if you include updates) unchanging strengths and weaknesses that players will always be familiar with, and even if you do not view Smash as a viable Fighting Game series, it would still make sense to keep them consistent for balances sake (lest we get specific Mii Fighter builds as broken as Meta Knight).

I personally like the size thing, I think it's a cool addition, but I can understand why people would have liked to have the stats be consistent for the Mii Fighters.

I can
kind of see it.

But at the same time I can't imagine that the differences in stats would be so different that one special Mii combination is 5 tiers higher than another.

I'm not going to join in on the ritualistic bashing of the Smash competitive community based on vague tales of their exploits,
but I don't understand the outrage over the customizable character being customizable.
 
I'm on the side that says this is a waste of development resources. It is absolutely unnecessary and would have honestly liked to have seen 3 different Nintendo all-stars rather than this silly Mii stuff. Takamaru, Tingle and Mewtwo would have been far more interesting and resource worthy. It's really sad how Sakurai missed that opportunity in favour of a concept that people aren't even going to be able to use online or even competitively because of inevitable balance issues.
 
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Goodbye18000 said:
And besides, if worse comes to worse, tournaments can have a default Mii for each of medium size and all the first special moves.
That's actually a good point.
It doesn't affect them so stop bashing it and saying it's "unbalanced".
I'm not "bashing" it. I already expressed that I like the addition, and was just explaining why I think others are getting upset with it.
TheMightyBox said:
I can
kind of see it.

But at the same time I can't imagine that the differences in stats would be so different that one special Mii combination is 5 tiers higher than another.
You may be right, but apparently Dr. Mario is four places above Mario in the Melee Tier List... so I honestly don't know for sure.
 
juju_for_president said:
I'm not "bashing" it. I already expressed that I like the addition, and was just explaining why I think others are getting upset with it.

You're not. A lot of the competitive fanbase is.

Rellek said:
I'm on the side that says this is a waste of development resources. It is absolutely unnecessary and would have honestly liked to have seen 3 different Nintendo all-stars rather than this silly Mii stuff. Takamaru, Tingle and Mewtwo would have been far more interesting and resource worthy. It's really sad how Sakurai missed that opportunity in favour of a concept that people aren't even going to be able to use online or even competitively because of inevitable balance issues.

I dunno, I don't think Miis would take that many resources. I mean, the size is such a simple change that I don't think it would even take a day of development.

And I think the three Mii's, despite their many moves, would take less than HALF the work it would take for Takamaru, Tingle OR Mewtwo. There's no "adhering to canon", it's just Namco Bandai probably taking unused move concepts from Tekken and putting them in.

And it won't be used online or competitively, but that still leaves Online with Friends, Single Player and local multiplayer, the last of which where Smash TRULY lives.
 
juju_for_president said:
You may be right, but apparently Dr. Mario is four places above Mario in the Melee Tier List... so I honestly don't know for sure.

Stale Nair gets more powerful
Fair is one of the most potent killing moves in the game
Side Smash rocks socks
Pills
Even the slightest changes causes incredible differences in balance. Those are literally the ONLY things that differentiate the two significantly.
 
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Hey goodbye1800, you remember that time where you said that you don't care about competitive smash? Do you need me to go back through the pages so I can quote it? Because I totally would if you need me to.

People are way overreacting, remember that the problem isn't whether the super small swordsman is better than the big swordsman, it's whether or not the small swordsman has its own tier at the top. There was always going to be an objectively more pro mii set, you should only worry that the objectively better pro mii set is better than all the characters that aren't miis, which is something you can't even begin to speculate until you play them.

juju_for_president said:
You may be right, but apparently Dr. Mario is four places above Mario in the Melee Tier List... so I honestly don't know for sure.
Not really that significant. Especially considering luigi is in one of those four places.
 
Rellek said:
Stale Nair gets more powerful
Fair is one of the most potent killing moves in the game
Side Smash rocks socks
Pills
Even the slightest changes causes incredible differences in balance. Those are literally the ONLY things that differentiate the two significantly.

To be fair, those are all buffs.
Changing things among the Mii Fighters cause a combination of buffs and nerfs, which you know,
is how things are balanced.
 
TheMightyBox said:
To be fair, those are all buffs.
Changing things among the Mii Fighters cause a combination of buffs and nerfs, which you know,
is how things are balanced.
I think Dr. Mario had nerfs too, such as the very slow speed of his Neutral Ground-A's. It's just that his buffs outweighed his nerfs.
 
Goodbye18000 said:
I dunno, I don't think Miis would take that many resources. I mean, the size is such a simple change that I don't think it would even take a day of development.

And I think the three Mii's, despite their many moves, would take less than HALF the work it would take for Takamaru, Tingle OR Mewtwo. There's no "adhering to canon", it's just Namco Bandai probably taking unused move concepts from Tekken and putting them in.

And it won't be used online or competitively, but that still leaves Online with Friends, Single Player and local multiplayer, the last of which where Smash TRULY lives.
You're probably right actually with that first part. I've done PSAs where I've altered various properties of characters for the purposes of modding brawl (Freelance Brawl Minus Programmer) and the values that seem to be affected by the change in height and weight of a mii could easily be supplemented accordingly into a formula. Mind you, it's likely just 3 different sets of character traits (Light, medium, heavy) and the game could easily make that easy to work with.

But that's not where the problem lies. It lies in the laziness of it. I suppose I should rephrase my previous statement. I feel that the game resources are not being put into the most purposeful aspects of the game. You can see how much effort Sakurai has put into making Miis "customizable" and it doesn't feel like a just cause. Bring back characters that mean something and have iconic movesets. I bet you that years down the line, Mii Fighters will not be remembered for iconic moves. None of them seem as memorable as Marth's Fair or Falcon's Fair. Hell, even fuckin LANDMASTAH won't be forgettable.

TheMightyBox said:
To be fair, those are all buffs.
Changing things among the Mii Fighters cause a combination of buffs and nerfs, which you know,
is how things are balanced.
I would've thought that the stale nair is incredibly difficult to execute properly seeing as the natural use of it is to hit with the sweetspot (the start of the move). And the pills hardly ever hit their target, they just bounce the heck over. So no, not really buffs. And I believe Dr. Mario's legs are shorter for whatever reason...
 
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Clawsome Bombs said:
Let's just all agree that Smash sucks now and play PASBR
Ewww no.

I'll just move on to Mario Kart and Mario Party thank you very much.
 
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