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The Smash Bros Discussion Thread

Quick Man stage with stage-accurate instant annihilation lasers
 
Guts Man stage would be the best. The dropping platforms gimmick would be perfect.

I want a Casino Stage on the 3DS. Preferably Casino Night Zone from Sonic Generations.
 
Hey, have we talked about what Pit's final smash would be if Palutena got in the game?
 
So guys Nintendo finished their investor meeting...and I'm officially now part of the Nintendo is doomed camp. So enjoy the fuck out of this smash, it might be the last.

Summary of the meeting:
wiiunysvt.jpg

It's actually worse than this

Mario Kart 8 in May, btw.
 
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Wait, hold the fuck up.
Mario Kart 8 in May!?
Hell yeah, that's my Birthday month!

And Nintendo isn't doomed, aren't they sitting on like 32 Million dollars?
And that 3DS is doing pretty good.
 
Jutsei said:
Wait, hold the fuck up.
Mario Kart 8 in May!?
Hell yeah, that's my Birthday month!

And Nintendo isn't doomed, aren't they sitting on like 32 Million dollars?
And that 3DS is doing pretty good.

I'm overexaggerating a bit, but this meeting was a fucking trainwreck. I see them being "saved" eventually, but not until Iwata is fired. Out of a cannon. Right into his blue ocean.
 
Jutsei said:
Wasn't the 3DS considered a failure for a while too, then it got a fuckton of good games and now it's selling pretty well?

That's correct. And it won't be happening with Wii U.
 
Are you so sure about that?
Stranger comebacks have happened.
This happened with the PS3, and it happened with the 3DS.
I know I'm painfully optimistic but yeah.
I think a lot of Wii Us will be sold once they release Mario Kart 8.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they offered a Wii U & MK 8 Bundle.

ANYWAY ON TOPIC.
Tomorrow's Ice Climbers 29th Anniversary, if they're in the game, they'll be revealed then.
 
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B-but, Bayo will save the day.

Actually no I've accepted that the first Bayonetta didn't sell well, but still

Jutsei said:
Are you so sure about that?
Stranger comebacks have happened.
This happened with the PS3, and it happened with the 3DS.
I know I'm painfully optimistic but yeah.
I think a lot of Wii Us will be sold once they release Mario Kart 8.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they offered a Wii U & MK 8 Bundle.

ANYWAY ON TOPIC.
Tomorrow's Ice Climbers 29th Anniversary, if they're in the game, they'll be revealed then.

This news pleases me.

Go, go, Nana and Popo! <---- new thing that the crowd cheers when they are in the lead, pls Nintendo
 
Jutsei said:
Are you so sure about that?
Stranger comebacks have happened.
This happened with the PS3, and it happened with the 3DS.
I know I'm painfully optimistic but yeah.
I think a lot of Wii Us will be sold once they release Mario Kart 8.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they offered a Wii U & MK 8 Bundle.

Obviously. Sales will spike for 2 months. Then fall until smash is released, followed by another 2 month spike. Hopefully they announce some games soon to fill the interim, or else those falls will be brutal on sales.

You should look up the details of the meeting. There were a few good things that came out of it, but the general idea was Iwata telling investors he's fucking insane and has no idea what to do with the company.
 
Smash Update.
No Ice Climbers today.
You get Link and Pit firing arrows at each other.
But we do get to learn that there are many elements that decide when attack gets cancelled out.
So, we get technical stuff again, which is arguably just as exciting.
 
The stronger arrow was pointing directly at the Nintendo logo on the plane.

Nintendo Direct confirmed.
 
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Nintendo will forever and always be more entertaining to me than any other so you can safely say I'll be getting stuff from Nintendo for a while. I think the problem we're getting to is that we have VERY LITTLE new ideas to come up with. Whatever grand idea other than putting the player inside the game, has already been thought up. We just can't progress any farther aside from improving graphics.

We make things too complicated. I think if Nintendo went into the realm of simplicity, it would not regret it. Why do you think platform styled Mario games lasted so long? The concept and story is simple! Jump on shit and save the princess. Why is smash bros so successful? You mash buttons and beat people up, not necessarily in that order! Why is Mario Kart so fun? You race a kart in a circle with happy noises and explody stuff!

Nintendo made the mistake of making the transition to Wii U complicated. It should've been simple. They should have called it "Super Wii" so that people would be like "Holy fuck, they mean business, take my money". If they stick to the simple route next time around, things will be fine.
 
I already noted this in the Zelda Musou thread, but nintendo announcing their intentions to make better use of their IPs and being more willing to allow other companies to use them is kind of a big thing.
Zelda Musou being published by Koei in japan is actually a very clever business move.
If this trend continues we might be able to see more Third Parties make use of nintendo's IPs

Platinum Zelda
Sega F-Zero
Atlus doing whatever it is they do

all that stuff
 
Atlus already has SMT x FE, which still makes me moist to think about.

There's a wide range of untapped potential with third parties. I'd love to see Wayforward try something, like maybe an Ice Climbers platformer.

Though the one we can leave out is Earthbound/Mother. That series is over.
That said, the fan made fourth one looks really damn good, and since Itoi said he wanted to be the player of the next Mother and not the creator, if there is one, I can't see this getting C&D'd any time soon.
 
Yeah, Mother has sailed and that's fine. The most I want of the series is the occasional nod and maybe a rerelease/remake down the line

and maybe Ninten or Kumatora in smash BUT ANYWAY

Platinum has expressed their desire to do a Sheik-focused slash-em-up a la Revengeance
and that shit is a tantalizing prospect
so let's hope they jump on that soon
 
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Nintendo is just constantly failing to adapt to the changes in the industry and it's painful to watch. Nintendo is either commanding the industry to change for it or stuck in a rut, they have no in between. Like I said nintendo has the potential to do well in a post console market, but depending on how long it takes to get there they could still pull a sega, which would be depressing to watch.
also, interesting article on the subject:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-25-iwata-isnt-nintendos-problem-its-miyamoto
Don't agree 100% but he makes some valid points.


Rellek said:
Nintendo will forever and always be more entertaining to me than any other so you can safely say I'll be getting stuff from Nintendo for a while. I think the problem we're getting to is that we have VERY LITTLE new ideas to come up with. Whatever grand idea other than putting the player inside the game, has already been thought up. We just can't progress any farther aside from improving graphics.
You're kidding, right?
Anyone who studies game design, even casually, will know that we've barely scratched the surface of the things this medium can do. It's the thing that literally drove Chris Crawford insane- that we've found a fantastic new artistic medium and most creators within it are content with doing the same thing decades on end rather than exploring it.
 
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The problem is innovation does not sell. People don't want to buy something "explorative"

Look at Call of Duty. They added a mode where you battle aliens instead of zombies? People blasted it. It's not what they want.

The problem is that gaming has so many different mentalities to it that you can't even use the term "gamer" anyone. There are so many different markets that there is no more catch-all games and so you need to focus on the one.

For example, DudeBros who buy Fifa 27 and Call of Duty is a market. NostalgiaFags who buy every Mario and Sonic and then complain on the internet. Casual Gamers who have all 256 Angry Birds games on their phones. Ones who play for story, ones who play for gameplay, ones who don't play at all.

Nintendo is now a very niche market. It's no longer the dominant in-everyones-household thing that it once was.

Is that a problem? For me, it isn't. I am in that niche of loving everything Nintendo puts out, regardless of reviews. Call me a fanboy, go ahead, I won't deny it. I will keep supporting Nintendo because hey, I like what they put out. Are they making the best decisions? Of course not. But is sitting around complaining going to fix them? Nope.
 
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Didn't the Sega team that made F-Zero GX go kaput?

Wouldn't mind if they found a suitable replacement though.
 
Goodbye18000 said:
The problem is innovation does not sell. People don't want to buy something "explorative"
Every time someone says this I wonder if they understand what innovation even means.
If you innovate and it works out well it puts you ahead of the competition. It doesn't matter if people care about the game purely because it's innovative, if you made progress with your innovation you will be rewarded for it because whatever innovative mechanic you put in your game just flat-out makes it better than everyone else's.
That doesn't mean 100% of your output needs to be new and creative and inuitive as a studio, but it does mean that at least a small percentage of it should be experimental to try and get ahead of the game. Experimental games are a gamble, but when they work out they really, really work out.
So the question is, why isn't the AAA industry attempting to make experimental games? There are a slew of reasons as to why this continues to happen if you want to get into it, however none of them are "they just won't sell."

Goodbye18000 said:
Look at Call of Duty. They added a mode where you battle aliens instead of zombies? People blasted it. It's not what they want.
That's... not innovation?
Realize that the call of duty business model, much like guitar hero before it, is actually made around the series dying. Ever since around modern warfare 2 they've known that they're crashing the series into a ditch, and they're fine with it because the path to the ditch is made out of money. They simply make the same game and change something relatively insignificant every time, and right now they're approaching critical mass where the only way to sustain the franchise any longer is to change or add something random and hope it works, because making modern warfare again without any camouflage isn't working. That's why the story is going insane with dogs and space and shit, and that's why the aliens are there.

Goodbye18000 said:
For example, DudeBros who buy Fifa 27 and Call of Duty is a market. NostalgiaFags who buy every Mario and Sonic and then complain on the internet. Casual Gamers who have all 256 Angry Birds games on their phones. Ones who play for story, ones who play for gameplay, ones who don't play at all.
What the hell do demographics have to do with anything...?
For the record, the mobile game guys are innovating way way way way way faster than the entire AAA industry, in all sorts of different directions, and they're selling games at like 20 times the pace that AAA's are. I mean, zynga is an entire company built around copying other people's innovation.

Goodbye18000 said:
Nintendo is now a very niche market. It's no longer the dominant in-everyones-household thing that it once was.
WH-WHAT? Nintendo is NICHE? I'm not sure if you've noticed, but literally everyone owns a wii. They aren't fucking niche. That's a shitty excuse for poor sales if I've ever heard one.
And by the way, guess why the wii sold so well? Innovation! It was a genuinely novel idea! But no, innovation doesn't sell, that can't be right.

Goodbye18000 said:
Is that a problem? For me, it isn't. I am in that niche of loving everything Nintendo puts out, regardless of reviews. Call me a fanboy, go ahead, I won't deny it. I will keep supporting Nintendo because hey, I like what they put out. Are they making the best decisions? Of course not. But is sitting around complaining going to fix them? Nope.
That would be a good argument if I was attempting to fix nintendo through arguing over the internet. Thankfully I am intelligent enough to know that Iwata isn't reading this thread and taking notes.
 
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Is it Ridley or Wonder Red yet
 
Is wonder red 1st party? I don't get it, wonderful 101 is by Platinum Games
 
Jutsei said:
Guys can we get back on topic, please? D:

What about today's update?
The whole projectile cancelling thing...
That was already present in every smash bros to date. He's stating the obvious and treating it like some new mechanic.
 
DeathArcana said:
Is wonder red 1st party? I don't get it, wonderful 101 is by Platinum Games
Considering how well wonderful 101 did, do you honestly think it would be that hard to convince them to let their character into a game that's almost guaranteed to sell hundreds of thousands of copies and give them the best kind of free advertising?
 
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Horseman said:
Considering how well wonderful 101 did, do you honestly think it would be that hard to convince them to let their character into a game that's almost guaranteed to sell hundreds of thousands of copies and give them the best kind of free advertising?

I certainly hope that Sakurai takes into account all the factors (economic, wise game design, balance, surprise etc) rather than just looking at one aspect to hold a particular character up in the race to determine playable characters. Wonder Red did well, yes. Wonder Red might be pretty cool, yes. But those are really the only factors allowing him to pose any kind of chance (which seems pretty small)

We just give certain charcaters more weight than their worth because they have such an overwhelming presence in one of the categories, but are completely barren in others. I feel that's all that this thread has been.
 
Rellek said:
That was already present in every smash bros to date. He's stating the obvious and treating it like some new mechanic.
I think he was more stating how the factors that go into those kinds of clashes have been readjusted
and subtle statement of Link's Arrows getting buffed/Pit arrows getting nerfed
woo
 
Rellek said:
I certainly hope that Sakurai takes into account all the factors (economic, wise game design, balance, surprise etc) rather than just looking at one aspect to hold a particular character up in the race to determine playable characters. Wonder Red did well, yes. Wonder Red might be pretty cool, yes. But those are really the only factors allowing him to pose any kind of chance (which seems pretty small)

We just give certain charcaters more weight than their worth because they have such an overwhelming presence in one of the categories, but are completely barren in others. I feel that's all that this thread has been.
I was talking about how platinum games would react if Sakurai asked them for permission to use wonder red...
Either way, your post is nonsense, wonderful 101 did horribly sales-wise, and wonder red has every factor going for him according to your summary- economics-wise platinum will make nintendo pay much cheaper royalties if they pay anything compared to capcom, konami, even bamco considering the situation they're in, he's perfectly good game design wise having a semi-unique power to play with, somehow I don't think his concept (or pretty much any character within reason) is inherently unbalanced, and it would be a big surprise considering no one is expecting him out of all the 3rd parties they could go for...what is he lacking that makes him such a terrible choice?
 
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Rellek said:
I certainly hope that Sakurai takes into account all the factors (economic, wise game design, balance, surprise etc) rather than just looking at one aspect to hold a particular character up in the race to determine playable characters. Wonder Red did well, yes. Wonder Red might be pretty cool, yes. But those are really the only factors allowing him to pose any kind of chance (which seems pretty small)

We just give certain charcaters more weight than their worth because they have such an overwhelming presence in one of the categories, but are completely barren in others. I feel that's all that this thread has been.

I honestly see no problem with that. I'd rather sakurai just put in characters that are some combination(not necessarily a balanced one) of interesting/unique/requested instead of going the Marvel route and forcing an agenda that no one really wanted; I'm not including character balance since that needs to be worked on regardless of who he character is and all the other factors. Sure having a balance of all the factors is nice, but too much balance can remove or devalue certain qualities and overall surprise. Having a few oddballs that are way more of one than the others sounds healthy and interesting for the game overall.
 
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Horseman said:
Nintendo is just constantly failing to adapt to the changes in the industry and it's painful to watch. Nintendo is either commanding the industry to change for it or stuck in a rut, they have no in between. Like I said nintendo has the potential to do well in a post console market, but depending on how long it takes to get there they could still pull a sega, which would be depressing to watch.
also, interesting article on the subject:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-25-iwata-isnt-nintendos-problem-its-miyamoto
Don't agree 100% but he makes some valid points.

Where have I heard that load befo....oh yeah, I linked to the fuck who keeps spouting nonsense like that about a page ago. I've seen the changes the industry is going through and most of them are for the worst. Sony and Microsoft have forgotten that they're making consoles, not large scale multimedia machines that can do everything at once. I don't buy a console for the stupid built-in DVD player, I buy it for games.

And do I really need to get into the overabundance of the AAA market? Which I still believe is not a proper market, it's corporate jargon to disguise the fact that they blew more of a budget on making an over glorified interactive movie than a game?

Yeah no, something needs to change in Nintendo but it's not that. I'll tell you one thing in the company that needs to die: whatever dumbass marketing department they have. It's sad when the business practices Microsoft have been employing are horrible (microtransactions in games for one) yet the XboxOne still sells over a million on its launch day.
 
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Yeah, I love good games and all, but "games will sell themselves" only work when enough people know about the games. It's like marketing thought that us few core gamers would spread info to the entire world by freaking word of mouth -_-
That and the fact that they focused so much on the controller (while giving very few examples of how it can be used) made people think it was an accessory. I didnt even see my first wii u commercial till friggin late last year...

Then there's the evo debacle....their marketing and legal departments should talk more.
 
For reference on the whole "the character needs to be balanced to be considered" thing- Goku has been in several crossover fighters. And in most of them he was around mid-tier. There's no character that, by nature, is over/under-powered. You can always balance them out.

LordTerminal said:
Where have I heard that load befo....oh yeah, I linked to the fuck who keeps spouting nonsense like that about a page ago. I've seen the changes the industry is going through and most of them are for the worst. Sony and Microsoft have forgotten that they're making consoles, not large scale multimedia machines that can do everything at once. I don't buy a console for the stupid built-in DVD player, I buy it for games.
It's been the natural extension of the game console from day one. With every iteration of their consoles, sony and microsoft are thinking "How do I reach more people?" And the extension of that has been to get people to come for the movies and stay for the games. There's a battle going on under your television set, and your game consoles invaded your dvd player and won.
A big part of the success of mobile gaming is that you didn't buy the device for the games. People have the device already because they want/need it for other stuff, and when they got it they decided "might as well try a game" so they got a whole big ass share of the market that everyone else had failed to tap into. Microsoft and Sony and even Nintendo (albeit in an entirely different way) want a piece of that pie. And if it works, great. Gaming potentially has something for everyone, so it's kind of ridiculous that its stayed a thing that's just for kids and 30 year old men for so long.

LordTerminal said:
And do I really need to get into the overabundance of the AAA market? Which I still believe is not a proper market, it's corporate jargon to disguise the fact that they blew more of a budget on making an over glorified interactive movie than a game?
The fuck are you even talking about here? AAA gaming isn't a "proper market"?
Do you live in some strange universe where AAA gaming is dominated by narrative-based games? Can you teleport me there?

LordTerminal said:
I'll tell you one thing in the company that needs to die: whatever dumbass marketing department they have.
I can agree with this.

LordTerminal said:
(microtransactions in games for one)
I've said this before and I'll say it again: it's just a business model. Just because king.com used it to declare war on human decency does not mean the concept is the realization of pure evil and avarice. King.com is the realization of pure evil and avarice. Not microtransactions, not dlc, not the free to play model, etc.
It's like not wanting planes to exist because some of them are used to kill people.
 
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