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The thread where I complain about Filia's bs

I'm new to this game and all, but to my understanding, Filia's strengths are supposed to be in rushdown and mixups, so I don't see how it's fair to complain about how good she is at mixing up and doing corner shenanigans.
 
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Age said:
The point was that it's an instant overhead crossup, you can't react to it unless you're a god. I'm not saying filia would actually do 3 in a row in your face in a match.

So you're saying that no one should have unreactable options? It's not just Filia who has stuff like this. [/devilsadvocate]
 
@Krackatoa
Unreactable mixups are a neccessity, otherwise nobody would get a hit.

This is just me thinking aloud;
Normally, an unreactable mixup would be doing one move or another, and one would have different risks to it, like a low vs a throw. A c.lk is safe on block, and can lead to more pressure and mixups, a throw is either punishable on whiff or neutral on tech, so the risk is different. A jump-in crossup is different since it's done with the same move and same risks. The downside to a jump-in crossup normally would be that it's telegraphed by the whole jump (or air dash in some cases) which means you can react to it with a reversal.

Filia's j.hk is both an unreactable mixup (low/high) both of which are safe on block and can lead to more pressure, as well as an ambiguous crossup. I guess that's my issue with it.
 
Age said:
And can lead to more pressure, as well as an ambiguous crossup. I guess that's my issue with it.

I don't see it leading to more pressure without an assist, and getting back in after someone pushblocks your j.HK can lead to your defender doing something with PBGC.

Like, j.HK causes so much blockstun that it is impossible to not pushblock on reaction every single time. It's not like cr.LK where you cannot react to the move, and it can lead to a PB bait. You block j.HK, you get a free pushblock.
 
The main thing that seems to bug me currently is that her ringlet spike beats Peacock's MP Bang in close quarters. I swear, it makes me think the ringlet spike gives her invincibility or something with the moves that seem to phase through her and get me a spike in the face.

And yes while her crossup mixups and insane pressure can be hard to deal with, I find that since she has to be so aggressive all the time, that throwing out random jabs that work as anti-airs, works quite well.

Oh and also I am not fond of Filia's who just airdash backwards with j.hp or such when I have only Bella left. If they know how to move with her it seems Bella can never catch up and Filia can just soar over her, out of range, and do it all over again to kill time.
 
Krackatoa said:
I don't see it leading to more pressure without an assist, and getting back in after someone pushblocks your j.HK can lead to your defender doing something with PBGC.

Like, j.HK causes so much blockstun that it is impossible to not pushblock on reaction every single time. It's not like cr.LK where you cannot react to the move, and it can lead to a PB bait. You block j.HK, you get a free pushblock.

If you pushblock the j.hk, she can air dash cancel (into a normal or air throw to land faster) and land in your face with frame advantage. That = pressure. You can guess that she will keep pressing buttons and do something invincible, but she's at frame advantage. She can bait, frame trap, use an assist, whatever.
 
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Filia is a "If you get hit you lost" character. I'm fine with that; it's possible to avoid getting hit. Parasoul vs Filia and Peacock vs Filia are really fun matchups imo.
IF there was anything I'd change about her, it'd be her overall versatility - as she also has access to two of the best assists (Updo+Hairball) and one of the best defences in the game thanks to Gregor which also leads to full combos on hit.
Valentine and Painwheel are similar "If you get hit you lose" characters - and both of them sit on mediocre assists and questionable reversals.
 
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Age said:
See this shit? This shit right here? If you can block this stuff, you're a god.
Filia.avi

Seriously if she couldn't do insanely retarded cross ups with her j.HK, I reckon she would be a lot easier to deal with.
 
TJGamer said:
The main thing that seems to bug me currently is that her ringlet spike beats Peacock's MP Bang in close quarters. I swear, it makes me think the ringlet spike gives her invincibility or something with the moves that seem to phase through her and get me a spike in the face.

It does, she's like flat on the ground during it so that's at least upper body invul.
 
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Krackatoa said:
I don't see it leading to more pressure without an assist, and getting back in after someone pushblocks your j.HK can lead to your defender doing something with PBGC.

Like, j.HK causes so much blockstun that it is impossible to not pushblock on reaction every single time. It's not like cr.LK where you cannot react to the move, and it can lead to a PB bait. You block j.HK, you get a free pushblock.

Pushblock is hugely ineffective against Filia. I mean... it does something, but it affects her huge amounts less than most other characters. It is one of the things I see brought up vs Filia the most. Once she's on you, it is a huge, huge pain to get her off. That in and of itself is not necessarily reason to bitch, but when it becomes the answer to another prevalent problem... then we have a reason to bitch.
 
Duckator said:
It does, she's like flat on the ground during it so that's at least upper body invul.
I wouldn't call low profiling moves 'upper body invuln', that sort of implies her upper body is invincible.
Jumping is not 'lower body invuln' just because you dodge lows with it. s.HK might count as such, since there's some part of Samson on the ground still?

#Terminology
 
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Age said:
If you pushblock the j.hk, she can air dash cancel (into a normal or air throw to land faster) and land in your face with frame advantage. That = pressure. You can guess that she will keep pressing buttons and do something invincible, but she's at frame advantage. She can bait, frame trap, use an assist, whatever.

But pushblocking gives you crossup protection, and afterwards, isn't any high/low mixup fairly telegraphed? Hit that PBGC window with something nice and you should have options.

I'm getting closer to Theorytown than I'm comfortable being at the moment. Sorry. I just have never felt that I am without options.
 
IsaVulpes said:
I wouldn't call low profiling moves 'upper body invuln', that sort of implies her upper body is invincible.
Jumping is not 'lower body invuln' just because you dodge lows with it. s.HK might count as such, since there's some part of Samson on the ground still?

#Terminology
http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.php?threads/hitbox-compendium.2004/
jYNZk9S.png


Technically it's not lower body invincibility because there isn't a hurtbox there with invincibility, rather it's just that Samson doesn't actually have a hurtbox himself and Filia leaves the ground in order to attack.
 
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Krackatoa said:
But pushblocking gives you crossup protection, and afterwards, isn't any high/low mixup fairly telegraphed? Hit that PBGC window with something nice and you should have options.

I'm getting closer to Theorytown than I'm comfortable being at the moment. Sorry. I just have never felt that I am without options.

I was gonna do a video, but it was just going to show j.hk adc j.lk and j.hk adc throw against pushblock.

The high/low after the pushblock is over is not telegraphed because it's either c.lk (7 frames) or j.hk (13+prejump frames?).
 
Also, if your pushblock gave you crossup protection, you cant pushblock the crossup... Cause you are already in pushblock... Gotta love filia :(
 
Dime_x said:
Also, if your pushblock gave you crossup protection, you cant pushblock the crossup... Cause you are already in pushblock... Gotta love filia :(

you can pushblock while pushblocking I'm pretty sure, but I don't really understand the timing.
 
Age said:
you can pushblock while pushblocking I'm pretty sure, but I don't really understand the timing.

In marvel yes, in sg, no i dont think so unless it was changed. You can of course pushblock twice in a row, but that has more to do with pushblocking a single hit move and then quickly recovering from pushblock and immediately pushblocking again.

At least im pretty sure it works that way.
 
Age said:
@Krackatoa
Unreactable mixups are a neccessity, otherwise nobody would get a hit.

Not necessarily. Even the best players get hit by reactable things.

My personal feeling is that block mix ups (high vs low, etc.) should be reactable. My reason for this is because I see such mix ups as being slightly safer ways of applying pressure, as opposed to something incredibly all or nothing (like "I will either dragon punch or throw right now"). For this reason I don't like unreactable block mix ups, because I feel it skews the balance of risk reward by giving you an easy and relatively (like 90% safe, as opposed to running up and throwing or dp which could be a lot lower odds of working) safe way of forcing a blind guess on the opponent.
 
>Fights a pretty average player
>Does good enough damage to his point Filia and kills the rest of his team with Cerebella
>Filia comes back in with little to almost no life
>Turns into a Super Oki Saiyen
>Everyone in my team dies
>SALTY AS FUCK!

That's how I feel about Filia...
 
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"Filia's been nerfed enough" Mike says. There must be a reason why most people still consider her the best damn character in the game, and that she's on every other player's team at some point.
 
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I still don't know in what circumstance j.HK needed the range buff.

Just because it looks like it should hit doesn't mean it's a great idea for it to hit.

Is there an honest-to-goodness reason for that? Other than allowing launch into j.HK possible on Bella while simultaneously allowing j.HK xx dash, j.LK j.HP j.HK midscreen for unknown reasons?
 
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She, Fortune, and Valentine have been considered the best in an a very large number of lists. Now that Fortune's less Fortune and Valentine's only really good as point, I see no reason to consider Filia as anything less than the best.
 
guitalex2007 said:
I still don't know in what circumstance j.HK needed the range buff.

Just because it looks like it should hit doesn't mean it's a great idea for it to hit.

Is there an honest-to-goodness reason for that? Other than allowing launch into j.HK possible on Bella while simultaneously allowing j.HK xx dash, j.LK j.HP j.HK midscreen for unknown reasons?
It was an instant overhead that whiffed on a bunch of crouching opponents at point-blank range. Cerebella c.LK used to go clean under it even if you jumped forward, for example. It has nothing to do with the visuals of the move, which are still way huger than the actual hitbox is.

DDB said:
"Filia's been nerfed enough" Mike says. There must be a reason why most people still consider her the best damn character in the game, and that she's on every other player's team at some point.
uh
QxInc7k.jpg
 
Broken Loose said:
It has nothing to do with the visuals of the move, which are still way huger than the actual hitbox is.
Lol
BapWkjG.png


uh
QxInc7k.jpg
Matchup charts don't tell you which characters are the "Best" + There's plenty stuff to disagree with on that list + etc
I don't think a blank statement of "Most people think she's the best character" is right, but I don't think this chart does anything to 'disprove' the point either
 
No, that's what the entire hitbox looks like throughout the entire animation. It doesn't actually have a hitbox until it closes iirc, which is why the hitbox looks so large, because it compensates for the two halves swinging shut.
 
That match up chart is bad for many reasons and I don't want to talk about it so I'll just say this.

Filia is the not the best character in this game, yes she has crazy hard to block mix ups but she struggles to get in and when there are 4 characters that can beat everything she does it makes her much harder to use than you think. What makes her so good is the fact that she can be put second on a team let the first character play the neutral and then DCH in for some shenanigans.
 
No one's the best character. Everyone has their weaknesses and advantages.
Peacock has good zoning
Painwheel has the air all to her self+armor
Fortune has a great head-off mixup game
Double has a greater mix up game
Squigly has the best close up advantage.
Parasoul is perfectly ballanced
Cereballa has both good mixups and grapples
Valentine has...j.MP
Big Band has armor greater than Painwheel
and lastly Filia has the best mixup game because of her well reaching grabs and she can even trick her opponents with qcf.k
 
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WrestlerGuile said:
and lastly Filia has the best mixup game because of her well reaching grabs and she can even trick her opponents with qcf.k
Filia has a shorter grab range than everybody else. Her air throw hitbox looks like it's glitched because it's inside her instead of in front of her. Are you thinking of Parasoul?
 
WrestlerGuile said:
No one's the best character. Everyone has their weaknesses and advantages.

Fortune is the best character on PS3 and If you don't think so play me on PS3 and I'll show you why. After Big Band Patch she may not be the best but for now she is.

Sorry off topic but it had to be said.
 
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Filia sucks you guys can't honestly think she's even close to the best
 
Loooooool. There will always be a best, if Filia gets nerfed who is next? Valentine? That said F**K Filia, screw her CROSS UP OVERHEAD j.HK beating my flash kick, screw her gregor post every DHC midscreen full combos and screw her + on block IAD 13? frame overheads. Still she has weaknesses but F**K her.

.....also why would you list Parasoul being balanced as an advantage Wrestler?
 
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Woofly said:
Loooooool. There will always be a best, if Filia gets nerfed who is next? Valentine? That said F**K Filia, screw her CROSS UP OVERHEAD j.HK beating my flash kick, screw her gregor post every DHC midscreen full combos and screw her + on block IAD 13? frame overheads. Still she has weaknesses but F**K her.

.....also why would you list Parasoul being balanced as an advantage Wrestler?

This is the correct way to be on topic.
 
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I'm going to sound like a complete idiot right now but what's an iad?
 
4 pages, and no one's mentioned her frame traps. Jesus, guys, get your shit together!
 
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