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The Unofficial Official Beta Discussion Thread

Silktail

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Hey, Robo players -- remember that random beam width buff we got that one week? The one that let you hit TK M Beam on crouchers?

Do you want it back? Yes?

Me too, but --

-- In order to fulfill the bingo card square of "Robo players try their luck" I propose we get a literal middle ground of retail beams and those buffed beams: half of whatever the width that was added to the beam instead of the full thing.

Jokes aside, did anyone find that one week was too good for Robo? Did it make certain matchups more polarizing or made her zoning harder to fight against? I've been cracking a lot of jokes about "hah, I should bug people about that beam thing" but was it a big enough of a change to her that maybe it made her too oppressive ala Peacock?

I'm gonna be honest, I don't think Robo needs any more tuning whatsoever -- she's in a super good spot but I'm still a little miffed that everyone agreed on reverting a buff. Curious to see if anyone thinks ever so slightly increasing beam width would be too crazy of an ask. It's not like I'm asking for Kamehameha assist or diagonal beam super. Would be cool, though.

EDIT, because I forgot to say this: I'm not asking for this to be implemented in this cycle, FYI. I don't expect any changes to happen to Robo anyway but I'm shooting my shot to see if I'm unreasonably insane or something.
i liked wide beams but robo is in a GREAT spot

i wouldnt want them to take anything and shes literally in the best shopt shes ever been in

the width would either allow u to tk crouchers and h george - (broken imo)

or it would do not much for her outside helping beams that should have missed in neutral hit, which isnt even always a great thing

and we might even lose something in the process
 

Triviality

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Hey, Robo players -- remember that random beam width buff we got that one week? The one that let you hit TK M Beam on crouchers?

Do you want it back? Yes?

Me too, but --

-- In order to fulfill the bingo card square of "Robo players try their luck" I propose we get a literal middle ground of retail beams and those buffed beams: half of whatever the width that was added to the beam instead of the full thing.

Jokes aside, did anyone find that one week was too good for Robo? Did it make certain matchups more polarizing or made her zoning harder to fight against? I've been cracking a lot of jokes about "hah, I should bug people about that beam thing" but was it a big enough of a change to her that maybe it made her too oppressive ala Peacock?

I'm gonna be honest, I don't think Robo needs any more tuning whatsoever -- she's in a super good spot but I'm still a little miffed that everyone agreed on reverting a buff. Curious to see if anyone thinks ever so slightly increasing beam width would be too crazy of an ask. It's not like I'm asking for Kamehameha assist or diagonal beam super. Would be cool, though.

EDIT, because I forgot to say this: I'm not asking for this to be implemented in this cycle, FYI. I don't expect any changes to happen to Robo anyway but I'm shooting my shot to see if I'm unreasonably insane or something.

4/8/22 : Eliza crouching hitbox slightly reduced *She can block Hbeam now!*

4/20/22 : Robo beams made wider

:upsidedownface:
From what I remember it was reverted cause you didn't have to choose between doing L or M beam anymore in certain situations, you'd just go for M beam every time cause your opponent would have to block it, so I like this point for reverting the buff. The iad lockout was a weirder nerf to me.
The IAD change makes me so sad because I loved what you could do with APM on detmode robo, it wasn't even broken you make the wrong move once and get TOD'ed for it for free
 
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rznant

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[Detmode Robo old IAD lockout wasn't even that broken]
Unless I'm missing something here doesn't IAD jMP starter scale your route to hell? It's not like getting hit with 3 crossup jMPs in a row is going to kill you, right? Abare out of it or something and send Robo fullscreen before she explodes. I don't understand why that was changed because... I dunno, Triv hit that yoinky sploinky a couple times.

[Buffed beams means you always went for M Beam since they have to hold that]

Okay, that makes way more sense. In my eyes Robo's zoning is read-based anyway and if I can get away with the Nth M Beam in a row without needing to think about it I think that'd be kinda not fun for my opponent LOL
 

Silktail

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Robo Fortune Filia Double
Unless I'm missing something here doesn't IAD jMP starter scale your route to hell? It's not like getting hit with 3 crossup jMPs in a row is going to kill you, right? Abare out of it or something and send Robo fullscreen before she explodes. I don't understand why that was changed because... I dunno, Triv hit that yoinky sploinky a couple times.



Okay, that makes way more sense. In my eyes Robo's zoning is read-based anyway and if I can get away with the Nth M Beam in a row without needing to think about it I think that'd be kinda not fun for my opponent LOL
triv also never even got close to doing good dmg with that super *cough*
 
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BellaFeng4Eternity

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I personally think the two touch combo routes from current top tiers such as Fortune and Annie need to be removed immediately. It doesn't paint a good look for the game if those stay in the current meta for the game right now.
 

Stuff

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I don't like 2 touches either but that's not exclusive to Fortune and Annie, plenty of characters can two touch with similar conditions it's arguably one of the things that make the game, the game. I don't think this is a negative factor in the game fwiw, versus games as a genre generally are brutal.

I don't see them getting removed anytime soon and I don't think very many players would be happy with doing less damage. Good or bad it's been a staple of the game for about its entire existence and it would need a dramatic overhaul to make a change like that which would be more appropriate for a different game entirely. It's likely here to stay and honestly I'm okay with that.
 
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BellaFeng4Eternity

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I don't like 2 touches either but that's not exclusive to Fortune and Annie, plenty of characters can two touch with similar conditions it's arguably one of the things that make the game, the game. I don't think this is a negative factor in the game fwiw, versus games as a genre generally are brutal.

I don't see them getting removed anytime soon and I don't think very many players would be happy with doing less damage. Good or bad it's been a staple of the game for about its entire existence and it would need a dramatic overhaul to make a change like that which would be more appropriate for a different game entirely. It's likely here to stay and honestly I'm okay with that.
I see. Well I guess we'll have to accept it for what it is now.

Other than that, I would be OK with some adjustments and fixes to some of the pre-Season 1 characters that need it right now since they won't be getting any buffs or nerfs at all.
 

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I don't like 2 touches either but that's not exclusive to Fortune and Annie, plenty of characters can two touch with similar conditions it's arguably one of the things that make the game, the game. I don't think this is a negative factor in the game fwiw, versus games as a genre generally are brutal.

I don't see them getting removed anytime soon and I don't think very many players would be happy with doing less damage. Good or bad it's been a staple of the game for about its entire existence and it would need a dramatic overhaul to make a change like that which would be more appropriate for a different game entirely. It's likely here to stay and honestly I'm okay with that.

I don't normally post in here for the crazy takes and bullshit that is often thrown here. but just wanted to point out about this. You say that there won't be many players that can pull this off in tournament, but in general in any sport, you are always finding ways to win the game. Whatever edge you can get, and what you have to practice to get that advantage to win. While it may only be a few for now, if I were coming from the outside looking in, I practice to get this down so I can pull this off. Now I can't predict the future but I feel that many players will pick up Ms Fortune just for this undizzy exploit. The old addiage still stands

"If you're not cheating, you're not trying"

and don't me wrong here. I have always thought of any game I play to figure it out, and be better. But this does make me wonder a bit.
 
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Lex

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Stuff didn't mention cLK loops or talk about execution there? The topic was 2 touches, which are pretty common across the cast and a lot of team comps can do them, as Stuff said.
 

Stuff

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I don't normally post in here for the crazy takes and bullshit that is often thrown here.
I have a hard time wanting to respond when I read this because I feel like this comes across as inflammatory for all intents and purposes.
but just wanted to point out about this. You say that there won't be many players that can pull this off in tournament, but in general in any sport, you are always finding ways to win the game. Whatever edge you can get, and what you have to practice to get that advantage to win. While it may only be a few for now, if I were coming from the outside looking in, I practice to get this down so I can pull this off.
I don't think I ever said that players would never pull off 2 touches and that's been the way the meta has been for years now, you're at a strict disadvantage if you don't know how to kill in this game (I would know, I tickle everyone for 0 damage then die to literally anything). So yeah I agree that anyone who wants to win will push themselves to learn more powerful techniques in order to win and win efficiently at that, however this is already a thing that's occurring in the game with many team comps.
Now I can't predict the future but I feel that many players will pick up Ms Fortune just for this undizzy exploit. The old addiage still stands

"If you're not cheating, you're not trying"

and don't me wrong here. I have always thought of any game I play to figure it out, and be better. But this does make me wonder a bit.
People will pick up Fortune for more than the 2LK loops she has plenty of other strengths and kills you in 2 touches just fine without it, currently she's around more often because her neutral game and mix up game is very good while also having a good damage output. If 2LK loops are removed I don't think there's really going to be a fuss other than "those loops were fun, I miss them" but nothing so detrimental that everyone would suddenly drop her, she's still good without them.

But yeah, I don't think 2LK loops are necessarily fair but I also don't think they'll stick around either and I definitely don't think people will drop her if she lost it. If anything Fortune will be on the nerf table again and hopefully it hits some of the more problematic issues with her.

I realize a lot of people expect something inflammatory from me and automatically read it in the worst tone possible (that and my vocabulary is inherently pessimistic but I'm working on that) but please don't put words I didn't say into my mouth, I don't like it. I like having the benefit of the doubt so I'd just say we had a misunderstanding but I hope that clarifies what I mean.
 

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I have a hard time wanting to respond when I read this because I feel like this comes across as inflammatory for all intents and purposes.
I wouldn't much worry about it. Outside of skullheart (Twitter mainly) its just the general idea that Skullheart is just the demented cousin of #2e_beta_discussion. Its just the way it is and shouldn't affect how we use it as the forum it is to show our ideas to whoever team is doing whatever

Anyone who hasnt really messaged here before and is doing it for the first time is coming from media spaces that all consider this place just a shithole anyway, best we just ignore it and it is better to filter anyone who plays the game but doesn't wanna read text because "hurr durr my complex ideas dont come in fun size" or doesn't want to consider this the most serious platform for discussion about the game
I don't think I ever said that players would never pull off 2 touches and that's been the way the meta has been for years now, you're at a strict disadvantage if you don't know how to kill in this game (I would know, I tickle everyone for 0 damage then die to literally anything). So yeah I agree that anyone who wants to win will push themselves to learn more powerful techniques in order to win and win efficiently at that, however this is already a thing that's occurring in the game with many team comps.

People will pick up Fortune for more than the 2LK loops she has plenty of other strengths and kills you in 2 touches just fine without it, currently she's around more often because her neutral game and mix up game is very good while also having a good damage output. If 2LK loops are removed I don't think there's really going to be a fuss other than "those loops were fun, I miss them" but nothing so detrimental that everyone would suddenly drop her, she's still good without them.

But yeah, I don't think 2LK loops are necessarily fair but I also don't think they'll stick around either and I definitely don't think people will drop her if she lost it. If anything Fortune will be on the nerf table again and hopefully it hits some of the more problematic issues with her.

I realize a lot of people expect something inflammatory from me and automatically read it in the worst tone possible (that and my vocabulary is inherently pessimistic but I'm working on that) but please don't put words I didn't say into my mouth, I don't like it. I like having the benefit of the doubt so I'd just say we had a misunderstanding but I hope that clarifies what I mean.

As someone who has competed rigorously in the intermediate to highest level in the online sphere, and silently observed what people have been doing, I can say that there has been a shift in the meta.

We went from characters like Double and Bella being top characters for their ability to select from a swiss army knife of tools to mixup someone to death, and that has shifted now to trimming the fat completely. Annie's Damage + her simple |Air reset 1(nce) and kill for it) vortex| has brought forth this new wave of people who are experimenting less with "how do I make this mixup ambiguous and unreactable as possible" to "I just need to catch someone blinking once with a babies first left/right to kill"

I find it fascinating because characters like Robo, who we're pretty considered "not the best" in "mixup meta" have shot up to like, 50% represention in top 8 brackets, because REALISTICALLY, most games are stray hits UNTIL someone lands a full combo. PME is the embodiment of this and its what enables Annie/Painwheel/Bella/Double/ mids, because you pick a point that excels in stray hits that can turn into 1string ->DHC kill

People don't give credit enough to teams that rely on stray hits or confirms like Tyrone / Cloud and I think its why Val has low playrate.

Remember that Just as much as one player is trying to two touch the other one, the other player will be doing their best NOT to get two touched. I had to respect this at ALL times when I played vs Sonic, but I was able to block airdash annie resets because its the most telegraphed and easy to follow mixup since Bella s.mk -> runstop -> jumpgrab

People are picking up fortune because that character is amazing at converting off of/damaging with stray hits. She spends the neutral game flying around in the air doing Gato, and you lose like 4K health. You get sandwiched between her and her head and then you either get Nom into groundstring DHC, or you run up and try to anti-air her only to get baited by her air-stall with H-gato, which heavy counterhits you into groundstring -> DHC kill. The only other character that can control that kind of space is peacock, but people have already known this for quite some time
 

Mayor of Earth

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Not a shit post, Make peacock item drop drain life :FUK:-smile
 

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Have something stick out of the hole she creates, like a little wile e. coyote sign with flavor text
Honestly? This would be great

The main 2 reasons I always hear as to why Peacock players don't want [Teleport + X] nerfed is because:

-It hurts her main way to escape the corner (it's not, but go off)

-It screws with teleport+assist combos/conversions

My issue (and probably many other players) is not with [Teleport + Bomb] (although it's still very strong of course)

It's with [Teleport + Assist], and especially [sHP > Teleport + Assist]

With the above, the Peacock is not only getting to escape the corner, but also making the opponent guess twice (once from teleport, and another with high/low/throw if she wants it).
Some lockdown assists (Cerecopter, DnB, etc.) even let her make her opponent guess twice, see if either mixup worked out, and still have time to escape while leaving an avery in the way.

Sometimes, I've seen M Teleport getting used just to make the first mixup less obvious.

Again, it's not Teleport + Bomb, that has proper counterplay against it if the defending player is prepared for it.

It's [sHP > Teleport + Assist] that's the real problem, and has very little counterplay, and only a handful of characters can even contest it. Usually only if they didn't have to block the cannonball in the first place (the only example that immediately comes to mind is Band parrying the cannonball and then Beat Extending, using the sound stun from it to still get a combo from it after the assist hits Band)

With the suggestion of making the Teleport visually obvious, you at least remove one of the mixups while STILL:

-Escaping the Corner
and
-Keeping Peacock combos intact

Also giving the added benefit of players with hearing handicaps not having access to the sound cue of which teleport Peacock is using, helping with accessibility.


This entire set in particular showed rabbles mastery and understanding of dealing with the peacock + armored assist matchup, and he vehemently hated that character

a bunch of teleport setups getting dodged

Funny honorable mention of swifts muscle memory getting me a free counter hit because he wanted to do that thing hes been doing for years on the last beta cycle

Dont mind me just dumping all the footage i can find of H-Teleport + Assist or + Bomb or Both not being free

I could go into it but theres so much counterplay available to most teams that a lot of players HAVE adopted to start taking more consistent tournament sets. Swiftfox has been getting hammered by people finally knowing how to play against his team

People need to be more anticipatory of peacock much like one is anticipatory of Double 50/50's. Yes they are strong and sometimes you hold it whether it because of the situation or character, but its so beatable and can lose all momentum for a player if done incorrectly or poorly. PME as a player is so genius because he plays in a way that shuts down peacocks fullscreen gameplan

@FuLLBLeeD

I also think fortune is fine

Headless Fortune and Peacock as characters force you to play a different game, and I and other players like that, its rewarding to beat them

Also there are tons of stuff in Skullgirls as a game where you kind of just have to hold it. Battle Butt + Brass, Annie Pressure, Squigly Orb, Robo Missiles, Pillar Butchers, Beam Nail, DP assists

idk i might just be spouting cause im not home rn but yeah once again these characters and the setups that are in argument of adjustments are still beatable, I as a player when going against other peacock players have beating their cheap setups in the back of my mind. I have other players who are out here doing a great job learning coutnerplay that I have to adjust to
I know I'm a month late, but just want to point out that many of the examples you listed involving me were usually Teleport + Bomb examples, and in many of them, I just guessed correctly. I did not have an answer to it (in one of those, you simply Teleport + Bomb aggressively back in after I pushblocked you out to make me guess 4 times, which got me hit finally)
I have to pushblock the keepaway character... that's a slightly different issue I don't want to talk about in full yet.


Anyway, to properly address the fortune's-head-making-combos-drop thing, I'd suggest this:

If Fortune's body is in hitstun, remove the hurtbox on the head while also making Fortune take a flat 20% extra damage.

This way, you can still:
-Bully the head
-Fortune gets punished for being hit while headless
-Combos don't drop on her regardless of where the head is

Is this possible to code in I wonder? It seems like the best solution


(also also, @Triviality, you're mixing up "were" and "we're." It's messing with me lol. "We're" is a combination of "We" and "Are" if it helps remember it easier that way)
 

Lex

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Fortune's body is in hitstun, remove the hurtbox on the head while also making Fortune take a flat 20% extra damage.

This way, you can still:
-Bully the head
-Fortune gets punished for being hit while headless
-Combos don't drop on her regardless of where the head is.
I really don't like this proposal personally and would far prefer just trying to fix how the head interacts in combos to avoid the annoying jank.

Not only would a flat 1.2x damage just feel horrible as Fortune but it would be a huge nerf (as compared to the current system working properly) and would remove/simplify the risk reward both for and against headless.

This removes the risk reward of staying in sandwich position Vs going for the crossup and taking more damage if the opponent lands a reversal (especially important in the corner). It removes the choice of "do I go for a combo/reset on top of the head and get more damage but give Fortune access to sneeze/nom as defensive tools". It removes the incentive for doing new/different routes that can better hit Fortune and the head and anti-headless combos specifically which are cool and interesting imo.

Again, I'm comparing this idea to the alternative of focusing on stopping the head from breaking combos within the current system.
The head breaking combos also skews this risk reward in a dumb way fwiw.

I'd really rather Future Club pursued a solution that fixed the problem instead of basically giving up on it and doing something that makes headless less interesting both to play and fight.
 

BellaFeng4Eternity

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If Dahlia enters alpha in the next patch, I would like to see the following being done to some of the existing Season 1 roster.


Make Bella's j.HP an overhead again

Make Filia's j.HK an overhead again

Let Peacock's M. Bang not jail against Argus

Give armor on Big Band's L Brass again


That's all I have for now. So, I'll update this post when I get around to it.
 
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FuLLBLeeD

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Just stopping in to say sometimes I feel like I would file Peacock's teleport being borderline impossible to see on some stages under falls under accessibility issue and not even a balance one. I honestly don't care if Peacock is able to do the cruelest things in the world with teleport + assist, it would just be nice to have some sort of visual cue to react to. You cannot rely on an audio cue, because players can pick Japanese VO Peacock and then you're just screwed if you're only listening for certain lines (which you will not hear anyway because there will be like 4 other things on screen that have your attention. In addition, Peacock teams usually have assists that obscure the actual teleport hole, so that's just another level on top of how annoying it is.

Just let us see where she is going.

I very much believe everyone would be happy with this change, because if you're getting hit by it it's now pretty much entirely on you. I feel like we're long past the days of audio cues being your only way to deal with something, and for all the stuff SG does (absolute guard, pbgc, land cancel) to reward you for good defense it just feels completely out of place. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that the issue is not so much that Peacock has strong options, but more so that the defensive techniques that could save you from any other situation get lost in the weeds when you can't tell what is going on on screen.

I think a lot of stuff in Skullgirls in neutral is reactable if you put time into the game and learn it, which is good and a big part of why the game has lasted as long as it has, but teleport working the way it does really blurs the lines sometimes. It is like people who pick colors to blend into the background on a certain stage, but she just has that "good luck seeing anything buddy!!!!!" buff going effectively all the time.
 

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Speaking of seeing things. it's a PW only problem but because she flies and moves the camera above the floor, you can't see the item drop shadow and it'd be nice if it was possible to see it even that high up because it's vital information on how I want to approach Peacock. Maybe the note speech bubble could hang over where it's going to be?

I'm a big fan of visual cues, audio cues are honestly useless in a tournament setting with no headphones and loud crowds. The more the merrier imo being able to distinguish something over something else is generally a godsend.
 

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I still want to see a build where if I hit peacock with a physical move, her bombs explode.
I've asked this for a very long time. I think its quite unrewarding to finally touch a keep-away character only to get hit by something she called 5 seconds ago. Really the "wrong time wrong place" thing that bothers me a lot, because at most times it just feels like you can't avoid it at all even when you do finally get a hit on her.
But at the same time, I think robos mines should stay on the ground when she gets hit. Or bring back bird insurance. Or. Keep napalm tears on the screen if you hit para. Meaning, if one character gets the treatment where her projectiles/bombs stay on the screen after hitting her, I think other characters should get this too. But that's another can of worms discussion we can open.
 

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Honestly if it were between teleport + assist staying and bombs going away when Peacock is hit I would take the latter in a heartbeat. There's always RNG involved for punishes when bombs are on screen and it kind of just sucks. Peacock should have the best runaway and zoning in the game but it's important that ends the second you actually hit her, and with the way she works now it's always just a bet you have to hedge. You could lab punishes that allow you to get a hit and avoid George, and then George can be like a couple pixels outside the zone you labbed, your punish doesn't matter, and you just die.

My problem with Peacock has never really been damage, zoning, teleports, or anything like that, the more I think about it my issue, and I imagine many other's player's issues, is that she just has a constant slew of rolling get out of jail free cards that are knowledge checks, but there is variation in those knowledge checks because you can't actually guarantee punishes like you could with other characters. It's different than something like Robo Mine, as sinclair said, because that move has startup, and if you're going ham on Robo when she's dropping a mine, that's on you. If you didn't know a frame perfect punish for a weird situation Peacock places you in AFTER YOU HIT her you might just explode and die and it feels unfair on a level that shouldn't exist in a "balanced" spiritual successor to MvC2. Players need to actually be rewarded for chasing her down.

It's honestly difficult for me to think of any other character in the game that can create situations with this little counterplay. Fortune is insanely oppressive, but you CAN get out of the corner with good defense, and if you land the hit you need to play around the head eating your combos but your punish isn't instantly stolen back from you.

I feel like it would not take that much to normalize Peacock, and these are ideas I'd like to see tested in the next balance update (even though that's obviously a ways off).

tl:dr

potential Peacock beta experiments I'd like to see
1. Teleport has visual indicator
2. Bombs go away on hit

The gremlin can keep everything else, as being good at zoning and running away is her birthrite. Skullgirls core design ethos, imo, is strong options/teams but defensive options that can get you out of anything to keep it balanced, and Peacock often times feels like she is crapping all over that as much I tell myself "I just need to learn how to beat her".
 
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Mayor of Earth

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Small change id want to see if j.hp on bella doesnt get reverted, and that's a small horizontal extension to her dp, Would increase the characters defense in lieu of her losing oppressive j.hp pressure and slightly increase her damage, I wanna see more devil horn loops tbh....
Ps. Give H. Buer a bit of upper body invuln, Would help its use in neutral slightly and give pw another small defensive tool.
 

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potential Peacock beta experiments I'd like to see
1. Teleport has visual indicator
2. Bombs go away on hit
Agree. These seem like cool changes i'd like to see. If people don't like that, we can always consider the idea of lowering the damage peacock gets off confirms when you get get hit by a stray projectile/george hits so she's forced to reset after that, giving the person who fell into the projectile/bomb (after getting in) a chance to get out and punish.
 

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Agree. These seem like cool changes i'd like to see. If people don't like that, we can always consider the idea of lowering the damage peacock gets off confirms when you get get hit by a stray projectile/george hits so she's forced to reset after that, giving the person who fell into the projectile/bomb (after getting in) a chance to get out and punish.
I'm kind of surprised the 70% scaling change to "this and all followups from a bomb that hit you while pea was in hitstun" from the beta cycle didn't stick
 
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Small change id want to see if j.hp on bella doesnt get reverted, and that's a small horizontal extension to her dp, Would increase the characters defense in lieu of her losing oppressive j.hp pressure and slightly increase her damage, I wanna see more devil horn loops tbh....
Ps. Give H. Buer a bit of upper body invuln, Would help its use in neutral slightly and give pw another small defensive tool.
Kinda evil to put these suggestions together, cause Bella is strong but then she only lost a property on a move that is still oppressive and people keep bringing it up. Meanwhile HBuer is trash as an Anti Air, would love to see the hurtbox on the buer removed, not like she needs it though.
 

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I'm kind of surprised the 70% scaling change to "this and all followups from a bomb that hit you while pea was in hitstun" from the beta cycle didn't stick
I didn't like this nerf because it didn't really solve the problem of her being rewarded when she shouldn't be, it just turned it into a "now I get to reset you after your "thread the needle" punish attempt was punished by george. You're going to get hit by george, she's going to confirm and immediately reset restart pressure. I guess it gives you an extra chance to block but like, you hit her in neutral. You WON the interaction, it feels terrible that it still somehow rigged in her favor at all times.

Removing george on hit or greatly reducing hitstun of george would solve this problem a lot better (and then Peacock players would complain about the nerfs so I guess it could keep old hitstun in combos only so that aspect gets preserved)
 

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Increase umbrellas hitbox post-getting hit so she doesn't drop out of shit as consistently and falls out of conversions that work on everyone. She can keep the jank 3 boxes stacked on top of each other, vertical Amaterasu looking ass hurtbox in neutral, But please make it bigger post hit.
 

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i cant quite understand why this is the case when her jMP (outside of ravenous) and jLK also work as instant overheads on band. as said it seems very petty?

i have a few umbrella things in general id like to bring up, actually


her unblockable eyeballs that can be attached to the opponent have really wonky counterplay. you can tag out or grab her to shake them off, but what grabs exactly work is a little inconsistent - fortunes level 3, a hitgrab, doesn't shed them, but bella's pummel horse does. I'd be more or less fine with this, given how some grabs or hitgrabs aren't necessarily attached to a characters body to shed them (bike summon for example), though fortune's stick to her regardless, which feels weird and counterintuitive on a mechanic already unintuitive to deal with

under the weather, generally, feels fine - its just that when she is pretty much anything but starving, it strikes the same area, putting disconnected attacks on screen that cant be dealt with by traditional means, even sticking around if she tags out

it seems particularly odd that unlike other moves/supers that inflict a status or put a big disconnected attack on screen (val poisons, squigly lvl3) can be snapped or even just hit to be dealt with, but not hers? given how cheap these supers are, it strikes strange she gets to have such exceptions on moves with such potentially high effect, be it making you deal with something (that mind you, there's only really a sound cue for getting clipped by, its otherwise unceremonious how it just... attaches onto the characters, while being unblockable) or being able to put up a bunch of projectiles to be defensive with. id honestly be fine with just making it so i can spend a bar on snap to deal with her spending a bar, at the very least, for these supers

her tag being an overhead is also just frankly a little silly, no other tag hits high/low while she also has the unique quirk of being able to hold it, retaining her projectile invulnerability as she travels. it feels like a very tacked on thing to make it stronger on a character with already high utility DHCs as is
 
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Just installed this update

Was my skullgirls install folder supposed to double in size? Steam said the update was only 1.8gb.
probably not the thread for this but I'd guess you downloaded the digital art compendium it's like 7GB. You can untick the box for it in steam under DLC.
 

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probably not the thread for this but I'd guess you downloaded the digital art compendium it's like 7GB. You can untick the box for it in steam under DLC.
I checked around my files. The SGBeta folder at C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Skullgirls is 5.7gb now.
I basically have a second Skullgirls installation in my directory. I wonder if it's supposed to be like this. Previous betas weren't so large, but maybe it's because this update changed a fair bit of the game's internal aspects.

Edit: It's probably intentional. Just reread the patch notes.
Tech
  • New Beta logic to allow for separate Retail/Beta builds
 

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Any chance of us getting traning mode matchmaking in this new online feature beta?
 

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Is there any way to stop hearing "AWWW COME ONNN" upon any form of a lost connection in quick match? The opponent rejecting the connection can get kind of... annoying at some point. (Sometimes it's just me and someone else and we don't want to play each other.)
 
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cross over combination finishes? Would that break sg?
 

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In a game where the only options for Solos vs Non-Solos is to either get two touched to death or lame-out the opponent in fear of the massive damage, I believe a change has been needed for a long time and I'd like to at least get the conversation started.

My suggestion would be to give Solos Duo health, Duo damage, take away self-healing, and in return, give them two health bars/rounds to work with as if it were Solo v Solo. I believe this would encourage the Duo/Trio to approach and not feel as if constantly running away and chipping out the opponent is the only way to deal with such a high damaging threat. Along with this, I also believe that this would give the Solo a helpful "second wind" by being able to basically recreate a round start situation where they start in the opponent's face if they were simply getting zoned out for the entire first health bar.

I understand the problems with this solution such as this really doing nothing about the Solo's lack of options against a Duo/Trio's ability to abuse zoning tools, but, again, I'm curious as to what other people think of this issue and suggestions in how to at least make things more fun and not as polarizing for each side.
 
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In a game where the only options for Solos vs Non-Solos is to either get two touched to death or lame-out the opponent in fear of the massive damage, I believe a change has been needed for a long time and I'd like to at least get the conversation started.

My suggestion would be to give Solos Duo health, Duo damage, take away self-healing, and in return, give them two health bars/rounds to work with as if it were Solo v Solo. I believe this would encourage the Duo/Trio to approach and not feel as if constantly running away and chipping out the opponent is the only way to deal with such a high damaging threat. Along with this, I also believe that this would give the Solo a helpful "second wind" by being able to basically recreate a round start situation where they start in the opponent's face if they were simply getting zoned out for the entire first health bar.

I understand the problems with this solution such as this really doing nothing about the Solo's lack of options against a Duo/Trio's ability to abuse zoning tools, but, again, I'm curious as to what other people think of this issue and suggestions in how to at least make things more fun and not as polarizing for each side.
I agree with your proposed changes for solos and I want to propose some of my own problems with the trio meta, from the perspective of a former duo player.

One of my favorite selling points of game was the ability to still select solo or duo team in a team-based fighter, and I thought that it made it very unique, especially for newer players who won't feel discouraged about having to immediately learn three characters in order to have a viable team composition.

However, in practice it becomes increasingly obvious that playing anything less than a trio is inherently limiting and thus it doesn't make sense to play a solo or duo team once you have a baseline skill level. This is reflected by the low amounts of solos and duos once you enter the intermediate to higher levels of play. I think that there should be some sort of greater incentive to playing a solo or duo team such that it becomes a viable option.

For example, for duo teams, it doesn't seem feasible to actually run a duo unless you have a very specialized duo team (beoband, etc.) and, while it has the bonus of health and damage, does not get to enjoy a unique option that is available to, say solos. A duo team immediately loses 1/2 of their team composition on double snap and still needs to eat an incoming mix while a trio only loses 1/3 of their team comp. A duo team can kill a trio character on an optimized two touch, but so can many trio teams as mentioned above. I think duos have lost their identity as a unique composition, where the only real answer to many of the duo's problems is to simply play a trio.

Although many people may state that this is the way Skullgirls has always been and therefore is part of its identity at this point, but considering that it is undergoing a beta, I still think its worth generating discussion to try and further improve upon the game.
 
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In a game where the only options for Solos vs Non-Solos is to either get two touched to death or lame-out the opponent in fear of the massive damage, I believe a change has been needed for a long time and I'd like to at least get the conversation started.

My suggestion would be to give Solos Duo health, Duo damage, take away self-healing, and in return, give them two health bars/rounds to work with as if it were Solo v Solo. I believe this would encourage the Duo/Trio to approach and not feel as if constantly running away and chipping out the opponent is the only way to deal with such a high damaging threat. Along with this, I also believe that this would give the Solo a helpful "second wind" by being able to basically recreate a round start situation where they start in the opponent's face if they were simply getting zoned out for the entire first health bar.

I understand the problems with this solution such as this really doing nothing about the Solo's lack of options against a Duo/Trio's ability to abuse zoning tools, but, again, I'm curious as to what other people think of this issue and suggestions in how to at least make things more fun and not as polarizing for each side.

I think this would be a massive change for the game, requiring UI and code reworks, and it is probably not realistic.

I think if the game were to go this route, a universal health increase across the board is a better way to do it, in my opinion. SonicFox suggested this on twitter and I liked it a lot. It would also give solos/duos more chip health to work with, and help fix the two touch meta if that ends up being something people want changed.
 
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