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Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

This is probably a case of "need to get used to it", but it feels really weird that Upper Khat now flat loses to m.Bang. Playing Lawnba last night, there were a few instances where I thought I'd be able to boat xx DP forward to get in, but now the best case scenario is that I stop sweeping and DP at a point where we'd both whiff.
 
So, this may already be well known but HP, L Fiber whiffs vs Bella (and no one else) at point blank midscreen. Any chance this could be fixed?
 
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Question: why is H Bang and M/H Bolga Stinger assists not multi hitting? I can understand if fully charged Stinger has a bit too much range but can I suggest the 3-nails medium charge version versus the wimpy 1 nail?
 
Cattfish said:
Question: why is H Bang and M/H Bolga Stinger assists not multi hitting? I can understand if fully charged Stinger has a bit too much range but can I suggest the 3-nails medium charge version versus the wimpy 1 nail?
I was gonna say "I don't think there are any moves with optional followups that perform the optional followups when done as an assist" but then I remembered you can pick Battle Butt/Kanchou/Run Stop as assists for Bella so I guess the precedent is there for that. I don't think Peacock needs H Bangx3 as an assist, I'm pretty sure that would be really dumb (it would basically be Sentinel drones right?). In the abstract though I'm in favor of better assist options for Painwheel since her current lack of good assists make it hard to work her onto a team. Fully charged Nails as an assist would be completely broken, but like, half charged Nails... that MAY be okay...?
 
mcpeanuts said:
"I don't think there are any moves with optional followups that perform the optional followups when done as an assist" but then I remembered you can pick Battle Butt/Kanchou/Run Stop as assists for Bella so I guess the precedent is there for that.
Peacock can fully charge item drop as an assist.
 
Cattfish said:
why is H Bang and M/H Bolga Stinger assists not multi hitting?
It's been explicitly stated that H Bangx3 isn't ever going to be an assist. Dunno about PW.
 
Lex said:
So, this may already be well known but HP, L Fiber whiffs vs Bella (and no one else) at point blank midscreen. Any chance this could be fixed?
Funnily enough, it doesn't whiff her crouching. And against Squigly, it whiffs crouching, but not standing.

But I'd rather not, I have plenty of resets that involve whiffing it on purpose.

Any reason why H Beam, level 1 and 3 super beams pull Lenny in instead of pushing? Not sure what other multihit moves do this, but it doesn't happen with her level 5.

Edit: So, besides the 3 situations that I listed above, I did some more testing on Lenny.

Other moves that pull it are (of course) Filia/Fukua's c.MK, Val's ground multi-hit normals, Cerecopter, Giant Step and BE. But nothing else.

Things I learned along the way:
Fukua's ground drill super and Big Band's Cymbal Clash lift Lenny off the ground.
If Lenny is in hitstun still, it won't explode until he is not. Noticed it the most when Fukua's lv5 finishes and the explosion puts Lenny into A LOT of hitstun (you still hear Lenny go off, but he hasn't exploded yet). And Beo's arm super has a lot of hitstun too.
 
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PME said:
Any reason why H Beam, level 1 and 3 super beams pull Lenny in instead of pushing? Not sure what other multihit moves do this, but it doesn't happen with her level 5.
This kinda happens with all characters during the hit stun from the Lv.1 and 3 versions of this super. Lenny gets pulled in, other characters remain stationary, my question now is; since Robo is moving more toward zoning/keep away can we get Lv.1 and 3 cat cannons to push away like Argus? Or is this too much?
 
Peacock is so crazy in this build.

I love L teleport + H item drop. If I have space I can always make item drop a threat.

M bang is awesome, and helps a lot, especially when your back is to the corner.

Bomb toss -> Teleport is awesomeeee. You can move around super freely with this. Would love to see how people deal with this, since its pretty new no one really has any idea what's going on.
 
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BigEffinDud said:
This kinda happens with all characters during the hit stun from the Lv.1 and 3 versions of this super. Lenny gets pulled in, other characters remain stationary, my question now is; since Robo is moving more toward zoning/keep away can we get Lv.1 and 3 cat cannons to push away like Argus? Or is this too much?
Cannon not pushing them away on hit is good for Robo because it lets her DHC into more close supers after she is done firing.
It would be less useful on hit if it pushed them far away.

After she's done the final hit has plenty of knockback.

On block it pushes them backwards but you should always push block cannon to avoid red health damage and to stay in place for an easier punish.

Fun fact, red health is called Scratch Damage I just learned that from playing the mobile beta.
Wee.
 
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Liam said:
Cannon not pushing them away on hit is good for Robo because it lets her DHC into more close supers after she is done firing.
It would be less useful on hit if it pushed them far away.

After she's done the final hit has plenty of knockback.

On block it pushes them backwards.
Good point
 
Ya Peacock needs to calm down. Her bombs+ assist + teleport with no *visual* cue for the opponent is too powerful.
 
MegamanDS said:
Ya Peacock needs to calm down. Her bombs+ assist + teleport with no *visual* cue for the opponent is too powerful.
Why does it need to be a visual cue?
 
I mean the camera does shift slightly everywhere that she can teleport to unless you're both in a corner or she stays more or less in place. If you want a visual cue, I don't know how much more significantly you'd want it to be than something that happens to the entire screen even if she's below the bottom of it.
 
Playing vs Peacock on Beta its just to fun!



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Don't know if this is an intentional change, but I haven't seen it mentioned. Fukua's c.mp doesn't vacuum after M shadow only.
 
Liam said:
Cannon not pushing them away on hit is good for Robo because it lets her DHC into more close supers after she is done firing.
It would be less useful on hit if it pushed them far away.
Oh, no, that's ok. Cannon's interactions with the opponent is fine the way it is.
It's just that Lenny inching closer to blow me up instead of Peacock kinda blows, especially when she's at enough frame advantage to put down another Lenny > Argus
 
PME said:

Oh, no, that's ok. Cannon's interactions with the opponent is fine the way it is.
It's just that Lenny inching closer to blow me up instead of Peacock kinda blows, especially when she's at enough frame advantage to put down another Lenny > Argus
Wasn't arguing against that at all.

Just responding to the guy I responded to.
Lenny should probably be pushed away by Cannon.
 
MegamanDS said:
For people that play with no sound or at tournaments where sound is an issue?

Even before the current change I've lost in tournament because I couldn't tell when a Peacock was doing a fake vs real teleport. It really sucks having to just guess which teleport they're doing.
 
I know this is totally unrelated to the Peacock discussion, but was it ever intended for IPS to not account for tag team members on the field as well as the current character? I'm not sure if it's a bug or a "feature" the developers let the players have.

Not that I'm salty when pro players body me via infinitely beating up my second character after the first one was KO'd in the middle of their combo. (Really strange exploit, by the way.) I found myself hitting the opponent's teammate on the field nonstop without IPS getting mad at me, until they stopped blocking and retaliated. It was pretty hilarious.
 
SugarDots said:
but was it ever intended for IPS to not account for tag team members on the field as well as the current character?

That is intended. You're punishing their bad assist call or having yours punished. It makes you more responsible for your assists if they can just die to an infinite combo.

EDIT: If you call your assist midscreen and die and they do an infinite combo on your assist, it was your fault for calling the assist when you were about to die.

If you call your assist in the corner and you get both get hit and then snapped, forcing you out and leaving your assist on screen to die from an infinite, it was your fault for calling your assist with your back to the corner, so you lose your assist (for which the opponent spent 1 meter to do.)

It's part of the game rather than an exploit, to be clear.
 
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severine said:
parasoul 5HP is ridiculous. i love it but i am not necessarily sure she needs it?
It fixed a lot of combos for me that would fail due to height otherwise. I find it useful.
worldjem said:
What if Fukua was allowed to have 2 fireballs out at once? Like, any two fireballs.
lol, I can only dream. Or if her OG fireball came back...
 
If random buffs/nerfs (or at least it'd be nice if they weren't just "random") are gonna be suggested, at least have some reasoning behind why you think they should be tested.
 
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Hey, so just a few friendly things after reading the last 10 pages~

This is not the thread for shit posting.
This is not the thread for bug reports unrelated to the beta.
This is not the thread for general SG discussion.
This is not the thread for asking questions that have already been answered elsewhere.
This is not the thread for posting random and suggestions without explaining why you think the change is necessary or worth investigating.

That's not to say that a change without explanation is a BAD change, such as someone posting:
"Hey can we let Peacock cancel her first bomb toss into L/M/H teleport?"
"Can Fukua have two fireballs?"
"Can Valentine have a buffer window after Bypass?"

Those could / can be really good changes, but please explain WHY the change should be implemented and tested, or at the very least be prepared to explain yourself.

I'm going to be moving off topic posts to General Gameplay Discussion or their other relevant threads from now on.

This thread is for beta discussion.
Please take other stuff elsewhere.

Thanks!
 
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I think having Big Band keep the armor from his respective charge move in his E-brake animation would be nice? Like I find myself using E-Brake to get through zoners but when I actually brake I just get destroyed. I believe it would really help him get in a lot of different situations. For example, trudging through a minefield of Parasoul tears and when you actually get there you don't just get jabbed and counterhit.
 
Gonna ask for some more Bella changes now. Bella hasn't changed in any significant very much since 2013, with the only non-nerf non-QoL changes since the game first released being Deflector staggering vs air, Kanchou feint, Battle Butt assist, and Devil Horn after US. I think it would be nice to at least try out something new for the Beta, even if it doesn't end up sticking around, since this is the final change to anything.

I still would like the s.mk change I suggested. Primarily want it to avoid lows 3 frames sooner (frame 6 instead of 9) to help it as a anti-low poke and lower the hitbox so it can hit Squigly c.lk. I still think vacuum would be a fun experiment. Proposed vacuum would have identical hitstun (same advantage on hit and block), just towards bella a tiny bit instead of away (like Big Band's c.mk).

I still want to experiment with faster mp and lp lnl (mp startup 22-26f, lp startup 16-19f?). Blockstun/hitstun change to mp lnl would be fun to experiment with (lp -3 on block, mp -4 on block). Landing mp lnl in neutral just forces a scramble situation. Could also add a buffer so that after mp lnl hits, it's easier to capitalize off of the +3 advantage a bit better.

I would like to ask for air mobility on Grab Bag. I want to be able to control the speed of the descent by holding up or down, and maybe strafe left or right slightly. Isn't really a buff, just a fun change. I would be able to put someone in the corner with c.mk, c.hp, then put the grab bag under them and make them fall into it.

I would like to ask that Devil Horns hit lower. Every DP in the game hits lower than Devil Horns. Even if it didn't hit any further horizontally, if it just went all the way to the floor it would help it a lot. Half way QOL request.

I would like to ask for earlier projectile invincibility on Kanchou. There are so many times that I'm in the middle of a run and try to slide through a projectile, but get hit instead. Just from the time I hit mk to the time she's in recovery/isn't sliding I don't think I should be getting hit by projectiles. Her other Tumble Run moves work like this; the frame I hit grab for Pummel Horse I'm grab invulnerable, and the I'm armored for Battle Butt instantly, so it feels bad that Kanchou can get hit by a thing she's supposed to avoid.

I would like to try out a way to cancel Glide with lp (maybe 10-15f recovery), similar to how she can cancel Tumble Run. Glide eats your movement option so you can't double jump out of it, and the lowest glide you can't doesn't really allow for any crazy shenanigans. Glide is incredibly vulnerable, every member of the cast can punish it on reaction without assists, and there's nothing Bella can do about it other than not glide. Letting me cancel Glide would let me use it as an actual mobility tool, not just for a mediocre way of chasing knockdowns.
Making the stagger animation have the same hitboxes throughout would be huge for Bella. All of her conversions off of Pummel horse would be consistent. Pummel Horse, c.mp being consistent would be amazing.

I'd like it if c.mk hit lower and further out. It would be nice to get the MGR, dash, c.lk, c.mk conversion on Painwheel and Peacock.

I'd like c.mp to have a hitbox on both elbows. Wouldn't really change its purpose or use at all, but it would let it OTG consistently.

I'd like if Pummel Horse hit lower to the ground to let it convert OTG vs more people. It converts on the majority of the cast, but some of them are super tight timing
 
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Zidiane said:
with the only non-nerf non-QoL changes since the game first released being Deflector staggering vs air, Kanchou feint, Battle Butt assist, and Devil Horn after US.
We apparently have VERY differing definitions of what makes a QoL change.
Deflector staggering multiple characters and reflecting from frame 1 is QoL?
Combos out of j2MP are QoL?
That's just off the top of my head, rather sure you're happily omitting other things here.

This is aside from the entire game massively changing in ways that only benefit Bella (having high damage is kind of worthless when the lowest damage character can still ToD meterlessly..)

Is your only argument for all those experiments "Bella didn't change very much over time, so she should change some", or do you actually think that she is bad enough to need any of this at all?
 
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Liam said:
This is not the thread for bug reports unrelated to the beta.

I would hope my post is relevant to the beta. Because if it's an unintended bug that should be fix changed, that can affect the existing game's balance in some way. (Which is the point of the beta; to test what changes work and what doesn't.) Then from there the competitive players would decide if it's a satisfying mechanic that should stay in the game or not.

gllt said:
That is intended. You're punishing their bad assist call or having yours punished. It makes you more responsible for your assists if they can just die to an infinite combo.

Who on the dev team said this was intended, or if it was a bug that upgraded to the role of "feature"? Basically telling me "lololol it's your fault for not having already invested 600 hours on this game n00b git gud" only tells me what I already know.

I don't care that I get bodied by pros because I know I'll get better via practice, YouTube, and time. It would simply be nice to know if Lab Zero meant for it to be so casually easy for anyone to break and bend IPS to their will.
 
Can i ask for a specific QoL/Buff on Beowulf? If you finish Airwulf into Da Grendel Killa and then DHC into Valentine's EKG Flatliner it will whiff only on Valentine and Parasoul.
My suggestion is to add hitstop if you DHC from Da Grendel Killa so those two characters don't fly to the stratosphere during the DHC. This would also make Da Grendel Killa > Death Crawl possible, which is a good thing.
 
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SugarDots said:
Who on the dev team said this was intended, or if it was a bug that upgraded to the role of "feature"? Basically telling me "lololol it's your fault for not having already invested 600 hours on this game n00b git gud" only tells me what I already know.

I don't care that I get bodied by pros because I know I'll get better via practice, YouTube, and time. It would simply be nice to know if Lab Zero meant for it to be so casually easy for anyone to break and bend IPS to their will.
Double snaps were intentionally added to the game in Slightly Different Edition (a balance patch in November 2012) to punish bad assist calls, but IPS not applying to assists was always (intentionally) in the game. The SDE patch notes are no longer on the official SG site from what I can tell, but you can see them quoted here:
http://shoryuken.com/2012/11/20/sku...out-now-on-psn-complete-patch-notes-released/
SDE patch notes said:
Outtakes (A.K.A. “Snapbacks”) received the the following adjustments:
- Ensemble characters no longer get knocked off-screen along with point characters
--- Now allows for double Outtakes if close enough to the corner
- While the Ensemble character is being comboed:
--- The previous point character regains health at a higher-than-normal rate
--- Their opponent’s team auto-generates meter slowly
--- The timer stops until the character is KO’d or leaves
 
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That answers my question! Thank you. Now I know to adapt instead of feeling like it'd be pointless to, if it got patched out in the beta eventually.

It's interesting to go over this changelog as well. Since I got into the game just this year, there's a lot I don't know about past versions of the game.
 
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SugarDots said:
things
'

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be elitist on you in any regard. Thanks @Mr Peck for finding that patch note.

FWIW, this concept (double snaps) comes from other games, hence why it's intended. It is not something unique to SG, either as a feature or bug of this game turned into a feature.

I promise when I tell you something about the game, that I mean it as it is, but I'll make sure to be a bit more specific in my responses from now on if it helps.

And that was pretty OT I guess but I wanted to tie up the situation, sorry Liam.

More on topic:

Zidiane said:
Making the stagger animation have the same hitboxes throughout would be huge for Bella. All of her conversions off of Pummel horse would be consistent. Pummel Horse, c.mp being consistent would be amazing.

I'd like c.mp to have a hitbox on both elbows. Wouldn't really change its purpose or use at all, but it would let it OTG consistently.

I'm all for stagger hurtboxes being more universal, at least re; Filia's height shifting during her stagger anim.
I'm not for adding hitboxes to cMP. You say it wouldn't change it's purpose or use at all, but I use it for extremely low to the ground crossunders because of it's low profile ability. While hitboxes still let you low profile a projectile like beam, they will collide with an active opponent and prevent Bella from crossunder under depending on how they're shaped and how active they are, I'd imagine.

However, I think of that like I think of.. PME? (Not reading up right now, sorry) saying he isn't for sHP Fiber not whiffing point blank on Bella because he'd lose a reset.

With THAT in mind, if Bella NEEDS a cMP buff (does Bella need buffs..? I just really don't see it. QoL and buff are a fine line MAYBE but a lot of these read as buffs. cMP hitboxes hit even in awkward positions when they cross under, then cHP whiffs because you're comboing on Bella hahaha lol xD)

If she NEEDS it, I don't care about losing my crossunders with it at all. Makes it different from Double's version that still can too.

Not sure she needs it.

(sHP LFiber shouldn't whiff though, losing a reset is worth a character being more consistent, IMO. Sorry. I hope you lose your reset PME.)
 
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