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The Unofficial Official Beta Discussion Thread

MI_Tiago

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Hello, I have been playing this game since 2017-2018, but something odd happened recently to me while playing on qm. Tried to snap Squigly while her lv3 was on the screen using Beo's grab stance snap. Usually when you snap Squigly in this situation, her lv3 will vanish and you can continue your pressure in your opponent's next character or she just bounces on the screen, but it didn't vanish. I don't remember reading or seeing anybody complaining about this but why this particular snap doesn't do the same thing that every other snap does in this situation? Is it a bug? I don't remember it being an issue and if it is not a bug, this is straight up wrong in my personal opinion.

Here is a video showing it happening on beta version, the same result can be seen on retail:


Edit: I thing this is a bug on Beo or something, even his normal snap doesn't make it go away.
 
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I feel like my team especially gets the worst end of this nerf but I guess it had to be this way. I feel like both Peacock and Fortune and whatever other character uses beam to move forward with can adjust much better than what I do as PW, it just leaves me even more open than I already was to brass. So that stinks but I don't think we'd revert something for one small niche played by one guy so yeah but I thought I'd share how I feel regardless.
 

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Might be a little early but this nerf needs to be reverted, the primary objective with this nerf was to make so that Black Dahlia, Eliza and Beowulf were able to evade H Beam (assist) by crouching), which is a fair point, but it was done the completely wrong way.

Due to this nerf, now a good part of the cast can just:
Dash under (Valentine, Annie, Painwheel)
Using a move (Cerebella using Run can just negate beam)
Literally doing nothing (Cerebella and Painwheel)

The solution to this problem would be to just buff Dahlia, Eliza and Beowulf by making their hurtboxes just tiny enough to avoid H Beam
 

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Liam

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Yeah, I think it will require another look, as I don't want to disrupt too much of the standing and dashing hitbox related rules with H Beam. Bringing hurtboxes down to a universal height however removes a lot of overhead set ups that these characters have to deal with which is more of a defensive buff than originally desired, but that may end up being a more viable option we try out.
 

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Yeah, I think it will require another look, as I don't want to disrupt too much of the standing and dashing hitbox related rules with H Beam. Bringing hurtboxes down to a universal height however removes a lot of overhead set ups that these characters have to deal with which is more of a defensive buff than originally desired, but that may end up being a more viable option we try out.
Why not split the difference? Maybe that would work?
 
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Liam

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Why not split the difference? Maybe that would work?
I suspect that there will be some edge case where a character can now run under H Beam with a specific option [which is probably fine] or Fortune's jLK no longer hits a character while rising and it's the end of the world [but probably also fine] or something, etc, if the heights change. Would love to try and limit the impact of the change but it may not be possible.

(As a heads up Hidden Variable (and myself) are heading to Anime Expo so I will be out of office for awhile starting tomorrow so may not be around to discuss or make more changes immediately.)
 
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Stuff

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Maybe H Beam can have a slight angle downward over time like L Napalm shot does? idk how useful that'd be in terms of combo routes though but it might make it so that initially the taller characters can avoid beam by crouching netting them a slightly larger window in doing something and possibly have the best of both worlds?

tbh I don't think losing some rising buttons is a big deal the taller characters often don't have the best defensive capabilities outside of big band anyway
 

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The impulse to revert this nerf already seems pretty premature. H Beam is one of, if not the best assist in the game and has been particularly dominant over the past year+. So I think some kind of nerf to make it a bit less oppressive is warranted and, on first impression, I think this nerf looks promising.

Just because the stated reason for the change was to allow characters to crouch H Beam doesn't mean the general nerf to the assist isn't a good idea. Plus, the assist is still going to be incredibly strong even with this nerf simply due to its screen control, it'll just be a bit less oppressive.

I'd at least like it if we could let this change rock for a bit so we can properly see the impact of the change, even if it eventually gets reverted.
 

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Hello everyone I am a Top level European player
As someone who has felt stifled by Beam Assist over the last couple months I am obviously very welcoming of the tweaks being tested.

I would say whichever way you land on whether it's good or not you should give it a try. It has literally been less than a day.
I am not a robo player so I cannot speak as to how much it feels disrupted to have the hitbox changed but the Assist's increased recovery feels much better to play against (it is possible to actually hit my opponents assist my dream).

TL:DR just actually try the changes for a week or so and see how it feels
 

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While I was in the boat in thinking that Eliza's hurtbox would be shrunk, this should be fine for the moment (if people actually play instead of knee jerking).
But as a fix, hopefully, I think lowering the beam hitbox by 3px (acc. to 720p res) should fix at least Bella standing neutral/hitstun vs it, and maybe some other char interactions (if not then oh well), while having Eliza and Dahlia crouch under it just fine.
 

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The impulse to revert this nerf already seems pretty premature. H Beam is one of, if not the best assist in the game and has been particularly dominant over the past year+. So I think some kind of nerf to make it a bit less oppressive is warranted and, on first impression, I think this nerf looks promising.

Just because the stated reason for the change was to allow characters to crouch H Beam doesn't mean the general nerf to the assist isn't a good idea. Plus, the assist is still going to be incredibly strong even with this nerf simply due to its screen control, it'll just be a bit less oppressive.

I'd at least like it if we could let this change rock for a bit so we can properly see the impact of the change, even if it eventually gets reverted.
As strong and dominant as beam is, some characters just being able to stand and walk under it feels REEEEEEALLY bad imo. I think the goal should be for it to universally hit characters standing/in hitstun and universally whiff on crouch and that this should take priority over characters being hit by instant overheads which is already very random in regards to who gets hit by them and who can take advantage of it.
 

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this is why people are iffy about the change rn
Cause they might have to work their neutral assist in somewhere other than the ender string on 2 characters?
I am sure they will be ok.
 

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I feel like the H beam change should stay, its still insanely powerful and I don't think that some characters having more counterplay or it not being the best choice to call vs a grounded pw or Bella will hurt its utility that severely. In fact I think its healthy for the game for this assist to not be as universally useful as it once was and having more consequences for calling it poorly
 

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...Just because the stated reason for the change was to allow characters to crouch H Beam doesn't mean the general nerf to the assist isn't a good idea. Plus, the assist is still going to be incredibly strong even with this nerf simply due to its screen control, it'll just be a bit less oppressive...

Robo player here -- I agree with Lex. I think this is a good change for Robo. A lockdown projectile assist that's a near-instant beam that takes up the middle third of the screen should have some kind of counterplay outside of just "holding that." This move is pretty damn oppressive, since on retail it'd have most of the cast be forced to block while the point character does their thing like jumping in and stuff.

People would still have to crouch under the beam in order not to get chipped or get hit, but it still controls that space directly above them which fulfills the "lockdown" part of the assist. This nerf just means people have more options against it while still allowing it to be the space control assist that it is. I don't think it's the end of the world when more characters are able to run under the beam since the point character is still a threat along with an active hitbox directly above them.
 

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As strong and dominant as beam is, some characters just being able to stand and walk under it feels REEEEEEALLY bad imo. I think the goal should be for it to universally hit characters standing/in hitstun and universally whiff on crouch and that this should take priority over characters being hit by instant overheads which is already very random in regards to who gets hit by them and who can take advantage of it.
I absolutely disagree with this statement, the only character able to stand under beam through my testing has been painwheel, bella gets clipped during her idle animation. This seems like an overreaction to what I would consider a reasonable nerf to the best assist in the game. I would rather everyone calm down and get used to these beam changes for a while before making a decision on the H beam change
 

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this is why people are iffy about the change rn
I managed to find a modification that works in a few minutes of testing, I'm sure better Annie players than me will find new routes just as efficient as the old ones before then end of the week
 

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I know this sounds dumb but if fireish moves are going to light dhalia's oil, can we get a visual spark from pw Cmp when she puts the fan to the ground so she can light the oil? Sorry if this makes no sense but if not Im not sure what fireish move pw would have that would ignite.
 

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I know this sounds dumb but if fireish moves are going to light dhalia's oil, can we get a visual spark from pw Cmp when she puts the fan to the ground so she can light the oil? Sorry if this makes no sense but if not Im not sure what fireish move pw would have that would ignite.
jhk
 

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As a Ms Fortune main now I don’t think her J.LK should hit on the way up. It can literally hit almost any character on the way up from either a dashblock animation or from a fuzzy, and can a very irritating blockstring to deal with as it’s just built in 50/50s

She already has unreactable IADS. It doesnt make sense for her to also be doing a move as oppressive as that while still Iading afterwards. It reminds me of when Eliza’s used to hit overhead on the way up a long time ago.
 

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Double post for Robo Fortune:

My only take on H beam is be careful how you nerf it.
When we think of Robo, we always instantly think of support role. You never want her in unless it is absolutely necessary. Period. She’s been designed this way since the release of her.

Robo Fortune to me has always been one of the weakest point characters but compensates for being a god tier support character. Her point game has been needlessly nerfed twice in the last two patches and the trade off was a better level 3, which is still volatile at best.

If we’re going to go down the route of nerfing her assist into the ground that’s fine, but I would then like to see some of her point tools get reverted i.e double jump mixup and low altitude hitting beams.

Ultimately the way I look at is that the top tiers in this game use Beam assist in a really absurd way, and I genuinely believe that it’s a symptom of them being too broken and not the assist being over the top. I really do think we need to lower the power level of these characters first before worrying about assists.

I’m very scared of seeing assists getting nerfed because that affects everyone in the game that wishes to utilize said assists without, lowering team integrity for lesser used characters and paves the way for more Ms. Fortune and Peacock players to appear.

I truly think this game would soar if we had more assists or DHC’s close to or on par with Robo fortune/bigband assists (I.E making M hornet bomber hit crouchers, L pinion being multi hit etc etc).

The lesser used characters have so much exploration for utility that just seems purposely limited and I want to see a more unlocked version of the game if you will.

I don’t want to see the support character’s support get nerfed while her point and problems remain intact. I do believe that is a recipe for “worst” character in the game if the support gets gutted too harshly.
 
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AloneLULz

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Out of curiosity - have we seen a MF "abusing" beam assist WITHOUT Annie on her team? IIRC on CB top 24 we had 6 MF players, 5 of which had Annie in their team, 4 of which with beam assist. The only MF without Annie was Taluda who hasn't touched his team in a billion years.
 

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Double post for Robo Fortune:

My only take on H beam is be careful how you nerf it.

I’m very scared of seeing assists getting nerfed because that affects everyone in the game that wishes to utilize said assists without, lowering team integrity for lesser used characters and paves the way for more Ms. Fortune and Peacock players to appear.

I truly think this game would soar if we had more assists or DHC’s close to or on par with Robo fortune/bigband assists

These are the parts I agree with for reference. I think Fortune beam and Peacock beam are more than likely going to be okay.

Fortune just needs to approach once and Peacock can defend her assist for 20 extra frames.

I can't say the same about pw beam which I mainly use to hang back and chip (which is already a really niche strategy [as it barely works]) and now it's much harder to do that which sucks for me but also I'd like to add that it's more than likely not feasible to keep a tool less oppressive for 2 characters while maintaining the great support that helps almost every other character while not being as ridiculous as the other 2 characters.

I do kind of wish other assists were just better because so far we just have the same as usual team comps of "It's gotta have double, robo, big band or (NEW!!!) annie" because they are more or less the best assist characters in the game.

That said, and I will repeat myself to avoid confusion, I in no way expect beam nerf to be reverted on the cooldown side, I'm merely saying that I'd prefer a different approach but I can also acknowledge that there just not might be enough time to take such a large undertaking in the other solutions because they will be harder to balance and also take away dev time from adding the new characters and making them work and I like seeing the new characters, they're neat.
 
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I thought the era of "Robo On Point = Bad" was sort of over? I think a more strictly zoning playstyle (when compared to Pea for example) has a strange feeling to it that feels like it's not what SkullGirls maybe initially was meant to be - she is not going to run through your whole team on a few good guesses, but I really disagree with the sentiment that she's some kind of nightmare on point.

ShakyFingers, PME, CatPie, GrahamSandwiches (and I'm sure more) all run a really mean Robo Point. Specifically PME dosen't even run any really great assists that enable her.

Even with Beam nerf, Beam is still exceptionally good, her Install is still one of the safest DHCs in the game, Magnet is still great and her cannon supers still give insane damage to DHC enders.
 

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My only take on H beam is be careful how you nerf it.
When we think of Robo, we always instantly think of support role. You never want her in unless it is absolutely necessary. Period. She’s been designed this way since the release of her.

Is... is this what people think of Robo these days? I know I shouldn't be surprised but I'm genuinely a little miffed that people play Robo for Beam assist function than a point character who's pretty decent at securing life leads and being annoying from a distance.

It does make sense, though: A lot of people have been running mid Robo for Beam assist to great effect, though I may be biased as a die-hard point Robo enthusiast.

If we’re going to go down the route of nerfing her assist into the ground that’s fine, but I would then like to see some of her point tools get reverted i.e double jump mixup and low altitude hitting beams.

I know that the phrasing here is greatly exaggerated for the sake of effect, but to play it straight: I don't see Robo's assists being nerfed into the ground here. Like I mentioned a couple replies back I think this is very reasonable for her.

She (unfortunately) is one of the few "big" screen control assists along with Brass, and it doesn't move her that far down the power scale just because more characters can do something about Robo being on the screen with the point character.

I’m very scared of seeing assists getting nerfed because that affects everyone in the game that wishes to utilize said assists without, lowering team integrity for lesser used characters and paves the way for more Ms. Fortune and Peacock players to appear.

I truly think this game would soar if we had more assists or DHC’s close to or on par with Robo fortune/bigband assists (I.E making M hornet bomber hit crouchers, L pinion being multi hit etc etc).

The lesser used characters have so much exploration for utility that just seems purposely limited and I want to see a more unlocked version of the game if you will.

I don’t want to see the support character’s support get nerfed while her point and problems remain intact. I do believe that is a recipe for “worst” character in the game if the support gets gutted too harshly.

This, I can drink to, though: I'd like to see more characters have assist utility/DHC synergy on par with Robo and Band. It'd be a bit of a hard thing to sort out, though, so if we went that route that will probably just happen after the final DLC character for the season pass is complete. I really don't think we should be expecting balance changes right now outside of things that affect the current focus of the development cycle.
 

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Is... is this what people think of Robo these days? I know I shouldn't be surprised but I'm genuinely a little miffed that people play Robo for Beam assist function than a point character who's pretty decent at securing life leads and being annoying from a distance.

It does make sense, though: A lot of people have been running mid Robo for Beam assist to great effect, though I may be biased as a die-hard point Robo enthusiast.



I know that the phrasing here is greatly exaggerated for the sake of effect, but to play it straight: I don't see Robo's assists being nerfed into the ground here. Like I mentioned a couple replies back I think this is very reasonable for her.

She (unfortunately) is one of the few "big" screen control assists along with Brass, and it doesn't move her that far down the power scale just because more characters can do something about Robo being on the screen with the point character.



This, I can drink to, though: I'd like to see more characters have assist utility/DHC synergy on par with Robo and Band. It'd be a bit of a hard thing to sort out, though, so if we went that route that will probably just happen after the final DLC character for the season pass is complete. I really don't think we should be expecting balance changes right now outside of things that affect the current focus of the development cycle.
I do think she can be annoying on point but annoying I feel doesn’t necessarily mean very good. Which is ok because I accept the faults of Robo Fortune she has on point since she makes up for it by having a god assist.

I have always been of the belief that if we are always talking a one on one scenario, Robo Fortune is the worst character in the game. But that’s alright since SG happens to be a team game where support value matters, and what she adds to it is absolutely game-changing. Always been her role IMO.

Fwiw I’d gladly try more point teams with her if she got her old mixup back. But after those nerfs it personally solidified her being a primary support character.
 
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Thinking about it a bit more I can understand why L Luger got nerfed, but I still don't agree with it. I don't think the move that already scaled your following confirm and could be crouched under from the majority of the cast was too oppressive or rewarding to land. Despite the usual consensus, I don't think Double's a weak/irrelevant character nor do I think the nerfs she got ruined her. I just feel like the L Luger nerf was a little bit unnecessary.

I doubt this will happen, but if the L Luger nerf were to stay can you at least remove the forced damage scaling on her Luger specials?
 

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L luger can and still does give conversions from air hits, theyre just less rewarding, and addresses an unnecessary redundancy in her kit by making the reward the least attractive. You're saying this when she still has H luger and cHP for AAs, in no way does she need the forced scaling removed; H luger is still hilariously effective and easy to use. If you want to avoid the scaling you try to use cHP.

L luger change as a whole is like the least impactful change she's gotten recently, it can certainly stay
 

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L luger can and still does give conversions from air hits, theyre just less rewarding, and addresses an unnecessary redundancy in her kit by making the reward the least attractive. You're saying this when she still has H luger and cHP for AAs, in no way does she need the forced scaling removed; H luger is still hilariously effective and easy to use. If you want to avoid the scaling you try to use cHP.

L luger change as a whole is like the least impactful change she's gotten recently, it can certainly stay
Why was that move deemed too rewarding? If the change was to address redundancy, why was it done in a way that was a straight nerf to her toolkit? Addressing a redundancy would imply that some other aspect of her kit would be a tiny bit buffed to compensate a little for the nerf.
 
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cloudKing211

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L luger can and still does give conversions from air hits, theyre just less rewarding, and addresses an unnecessary redundancy in her kit by making the reward the least attractive. You're saying this when she still has H luger and cHP for AAs, in no way does she need the forced scaling removed; H luger is still hilariously effective and easy to use. If you want to avoid the scaling you try to use cHP.

L luger change as a whole is like the least impactful change she's gotten recently, it can certainly stay
It could also certainly come back.

L Luger nerf literally removed avenues of reward for mid to long range shots beyond confirming into car (which would leave her minus if otg gets spent), and now requires meter for close-ish midrange shots to get a combo, if at all.

That is a substantial loss of reward to a character with 1 special that impacts neutral (slide kinda does but in a general Hail Mary play kinda sense, as its not possible to make safe without another safe dhc anyway)

If you get shot by l gun, you certainly deserved it. Its not huge, doesn't have huge blockstun, is not plus on air block, is 12 frame startup and is only -4 yet easily crouched by alot of the cast, 37 frames of recovery.

She is a low throw character overall due to the fact that her overhead specials (item crash) all lose to landcancel and AC (nerfed to that state, as monster used to make barrel safe previously, which is better than fridge), which means her mixup is inherently riskier than a ton of the cast that are high/low with unreactable plus on block high options to beat downback. This is why her one safe-sh grounded neutral tool was kitted the way it was: being really strong yet not overbearing in any range

This was all balanced out by the fact that doubles issues were addressed by meter usage which last I checked, requires a resource. Eventually over the course of the game's life, all of double's metered options outside of car have seen substantial nerfs, which has always been a huge part of her character, and why many players liked playing her.

We have also consistently seen both doubles metered options and assist options being continuously nerfed for years, making her end up a better than average point character and not even being top 5 supports, a far cry from what she used to be anymore.

All I am seeing here is "I don't think it should come back because 'Double' " and not, "this is why this is a good change to her kit in the overall metagame: X"

Like prior to any changes to double with Annie patch, she really just needed h gun to not be possibly +1 at point blank range.

Who really though L gun is a meta impacting problem? That was like one of the least egregious things about double

The greater community having a double problem =/= double being a problem

I have not seen one well thought out argument for the L Gun nerf since before it happened, and since.
 

hamie96

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Since Beo seems to be in a rough spot right now, can he please have reduced Chair recall? I feel like that change to him could greatly benefit the character right now.
Changing chair recall wouldn't fix any of his issues. A nerf to Fortune, Annie, and Peacock would help Beo far more than any moveset buffs.
 

tossle

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This reads less like old L luger needs to come back and more that double's metered tools could use another look at, which I would be much more agreeable to; there's no denying over the years she's gotten tons of nerfs, and in the current state of the game it seems almost unfair how much she's been knocked down, especially since she's no longer really as dominant as THE glue team player anymore.

I don't think the luger change is still significant enough to warrant reversing, because ultimately its effects are more felt due to her other more significant nerfs instead of it directly
 

BellaFeng4Eternity

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Changing chair recall wouldn't fix any of his issues. A nerf to Fortune, Annie, and Peacock would help Beo far more than any moveset buffs.
Exactly. Any nerfs to the top 3 characters right now would be a blessing and a much better way for Beo to stand out in the current Season 1 meta. He, along with Painwheel, are in dire need of some help right now.

Also, on the topic of nerfing any of the top 3 characters, I would love to see the damage reduced on Fortune's head loops. Seeing this character do head loops at 1k+ damage with no undizzy is just ridiculous and unhealthy for the game.
 
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