You misunderstood what I mean by complete tool kits which is fine because I could have described it better. Double USED to be like Annie in the sense that her entire tool kit worked and was threatening, but now one super that used to be really good is a joke super and one special that used to be really punishing to get hit by is a DBFZ beam that nets you nothing a ton of the time.
I'm guessing the special and super you are referring to are luger and catheads respectively
- I want L luger back as well but saying this change made her kit not work is an exaggeration, the pre Annie Double and the post Annie double are almost the same. While not being able to convert as far from L luger is most definitely a nerf and one I would like to see reverted not being able to convert max range off luger does not kill this character
-If the super you are referring to is catheads then I am incredibly perplexed. Catheads even post nerf is absolutely a great super especially after it was partially reverted, it provides the best safe DHC in the game still even though we have shifted away from the safe DHC meta and towards a two touch meta.
Double before Annie and post Annie are almost the exact same character, she has had 2 changes since Annie came out: L luger nerf and Catheads DHC nerf which was partially reverted.
Also I would agree about Annie overshadowing characters in the last build, but that's not the case anymore after pillar dhc changed.
While I get the sentiment I still disagree. I would argue that Annie still overshadows members of the cast even today, one example of this I would like to point to is double
While Annie and Double have different playstyles they both are generalist characters who are able to do many things well but typically aren't the best in any given area. They are both typically seen off point and used to support the team, however Annie has much better assists than double does and is able to provide similar utility to the team
-Annie has a better version of bomber than knuckle(Forward moving lockdown assists that travel in the same arc), it is unable to be ducked like bomber can and still fullscreen wallsplat you. Even after the nerfs these assists are still insanely good, especially for zoners where sending you fullscreen and wallsplatting is a godsend. Its also much easier to convert off a stray H knuckle assist than H bomber
-Annie also a arguably better DP assist than Double. While it does cover a good amount of horizontal space and is great for getting happy birthdays I still wouldn't consider it to be in the top tier of DP assists. Annie DP on the other hand covers an insane amount of vertical space as well as a little bit of horizontal space, it's single hit so it scales less than bomber, It launches opponents very far horizontally and vertically which makes it easy to pick up off of for most characters, providing great corner carry, as well as having more hitstun than L bomber. I would also like to mention that in the scenario where Annie's DP gets a happy birthday the horizontal carry DP provides makes the route to the corner for a snap much easier and doesn't require more than a LMH Snap past midscreen
-Annie's meteor strike and pillar of creation are great for picking up a combo after a DHC just like Double's puddle, however Annie is a much higher damage character so when choosing a character with that utility in mind most people will gravitate towards Annie.
-Annie also has access to other assists double doesn't, like Crescent cut or her installed 6hp and 2hk.
-Her install 2hk is particularly of note because it has high blockstun and hits low making for a very potent low hitting lockdown sweep assist with good chip that is easy to convert off without even using otg which is gives competition for Doubles last good assist in Slide, which is also a low hitting sweep with good blockstun but uses OTG at the cost of its greater range and no meter requirement. Just for comparison Doubles Slide does 130 chip and 1300 on hit while install 2hk does 273 chip 3177 on hit, it costs about 20% of a bar per use but since its a more niche assist and costs meter you can disagree with this comparison but I think its worth bringing up
-Doubles main utility as a character is her ability to safely DHC with catheads and potentially get a mixup afterwards, Annie however also has a safe DHC in gravity Slingshot for 1 extra bar that also provides an easy way to mixup after it
-The main thing Double has that Annie lacks is a good damage level 3 for DHC which can be routed around for lower damage characters by frontloading Damage and moving to the corner and then DHCing to Annie for similar results in damage.
Double was considered a top 3 character for 4 years until Annie came out where she received two nerfs to Luger and Catheads she ends up sliding down most peoples tier lists. While I'm strongly in favor of L Luger getting reverted those two changes seem too minor to justify her falling out of relevance by themselves. Instead I would argue the main reason Double has fallen out of meta relevance is Annie, which is why most Double players I see are double loyalists who love the character and have played them for years. In fact the only non Annie players at the last CEO top 8 were Turvon and Gelato (Excluding Bonanze who ran both characters and swapped between them for his mid) who have been playing double for years beforehand.
As for her DP assist, it doesn't make sense to bring it down to other DP assists levels when they're not created equal to begin with. You have dp assists as weak as Fiber and dp assists as strong as Beat extend. You even have ones like L bomber that are invincible, horizontal and lockdown. Annie doesn't even have the best one out of all the dp assists so it doesn't make sense to me to ask for it to be toned down.
While not all DP assists are created equal I think its very important to consider who those DP assists are attached to. Updo and Fiber are both attached to characters are typically points. I discussed L bomber above but I would consider Annie's DP superior to double's DP due to the large vertical area it covers (Very useful for catching people who call assist + jump for an overhead setup), its corner carry, and better scaling. IMO the best DP assist is between Beat extend and Annies H DP, while beat extend is incredible and provides a ton of utility it still does suffer from poorer scaling than Annie's H HP which covers far more vertical distance and has better corner carry. While one could go for one side or the other I think its important to remember that Band is THE assist character and is almost always run anchor because you always want to use his assists without having to actually play band, its his greatest strength and his large size lets him be bullied on point to compensate. Annie however is a generalist character who is good at everything while having a DP better than the other generalist and is vying for the best DP assist in the game with the Assist character.
Pillar is not a much easier otg pick up lol this is character dependent. Fortune and Robo happen to be fast, unlucky.
I would also like to object to this statement, I did a little bit of testing and way able to find that a massive chunk of the cast is able to pick up OTG pretty easily including some of the slower characters.
Here's another example. If we look at Valentine we have a character with a complete tool kit that doesn't always work. Completing her toolkit can be as simple as making Valentines useless command grab give her a bypass afterwards, bypass actually not bugging out, back dash iad j.LP always staying same side, j.mp having more hitstun, EKG letting you pick the side the opponent ends up on ETC. When characters function to their max potential the game is better for it. Annie does this and players don't like this because its not the norm and it should be the norm.
I should preface this by saying I'm 100% in favor of Val being made more consistent. I think its a crime that a tool as important as bypass is notorious for just not working and would love to see it addressed posthaste. However some of the other suggestions you made her strike me as a bit questionable, specifically regarding her command grab. I think val is an already good character (when her jank gets fixed) who really isn't struggling to find a niche in the meta. She specializes in a specific playstyle and does it well as opposed to Annie who is designed to be a generalist character who is able to fit on almost every team, while it would be nice if her command grab was better its not really a pressing issue for her and even if it was buffed I don't think it would see that much more use.
Finally I would like to inquire as to what a complete tool kit means? If you mean characters like Painwheel and Val having less jank or characters like filia getting QoL changes/buffs that make it so her strings dont drop when you are off by a couple of centimeters I'm all for it.
However if a completed kit means to make characters more generalized like Annie I would like to object. Characters don't have to be good at everything to be fun, in fact the characters I hear called "Boring" the most are generalists like Double and Annie. Weaknesses and the absence of tools in a characters kit can do just as much to define them as their strengths do
