Eliza also hard struggles against zoners while having the least utility in the game, and imo she actually has the beowulf problem where she just needs to have a neutral assist, which isn't necessarily a bad thing but I'm just saying when there's more of the cast that's more inherently useful than eliza, that's a problem that should be fixed.
Disagree. Eliza is fine versus zoners. She fails versus fukua and robo specifically because she can't reach them with the hitboxes that go down on her (l fireball, in the air l beam. Startup of horus is slow, eliza is huge. If someone zones her from the sky she fails. I know because i played a lot versus 2 of the best parasoul players in europe and the best fukua player europe. anything that generally moves down into her huge forehead messes her up).
I have my fair share of experience versus peck, ratbaby, sanji and other notable zoners. Eliza generally isn't bad against zoning. You just need to put in extra effort to get the most out of her tools and understand how her startup + distance works. The only thing making her HORRIBLE in some zoning is her size, like i just explained.
Eliza lacks falling buttons, they become more and more relevant as the meta progress and while jLK would fit the bill it's kinda meh on that front. It could also stand to have less recovery or something because there are some heights you can't convert at all from. It'd be nice if it was more in line with the rest of the jLKs (a lot of them are like +6 or something and I'm just looking at the other air dashers)
Agree. Besides that she's super huge. Doesn't make sense in a game like skullgirls to not give a character falling buttons to get out of things (bigband has timpani and falling buttons too :( :( ). Besides that, unlike other skullgirls characters, eliza does not get to use her meter to get out of combos unless it level 3 which is very susceptible to projectiles falling down (like chair)
5LP still has that really dumb nerf where it sends the opponent up for some reason and should maybe be reverted finally after all these years
You can use this for sekh 50/50 sideswitches and crossunders.
Sehkmet is probably fine, I still feel it's mostly combo fodder but what can you do?
Sekhmet is great for footsies and midrange rps. Sekhmet also shits on teams that bruteforce (think beo/band/bella). Sekhmet is great verses zoning too if you understand startup and distance ( 2HK cancel into Butchers often stuffs teams with brass )
Throne could use more tweaking for its anti zoning properties (maybe it can absorb 1 projectile while going through the rest idk, maybe better combo-abilty or some type of secondary advantage for it hitting from fullscreen, not quite a combo but maybe the ability to position better) and maybe 2HK could use more speed going forward but not to the point where she can just L spiral for safety but something similar to Testament 2H (maybe slower, that move goes far, I just want her to be able to hDP counter more often from this.)
I really do not think anything is wrong with throne. I think people just don't know how to use throne. But that's fine. I agree that it could have 1 hit of zoning armor but eliza already has a lot of tools to deal with zoning by just eating projectiles with 2hk then instantly cancelling into throne, albus, horus or butchers..its very strange that I don't see people use this except for a few eliza players i've coached throughout the years. 2hk really exists to eat projectiles BEFORE you can counter things. you do not use it point blank or finish the entire animation of 2hk. Thats not how it works.
If anything, i'd wish for projectile armor to exist with 2hk even earlier. The only thing stopping eliza from doing it sometimes is projectiles hitting her huge head.
Have always been a firm believer that the only thing stopping eliza from being an absolute menace to zoners (which she already is) is her head hitbox and how slow 2hk projectile armor startup is.
At least for me what it boils down to why I don't bother with eliza is that her frame data is not the greatest and could use some tweaks, I think she can maintain her difficulty while still being much more consistent fwiw.
Eliza is in limbo. No idea what the original dev wanted to do with her. Her midrange is amazing, but its not something that fits into skullgirls. She has "skullgirls pokes" and is able to stick on you...but filia does it better. fortune does it better.
It's why i generally play eliza as a sit and wait character (unless my opponent does the same) i'd like it if her midrange options were tweaked even more (already happened with sekhmet which is awesome) but at the same time, i think it would make her even less of a skullgirls character lol.
At this point I just accepted that she's some wicked creature that can not be understood as simple as jump in jlp.
I genuinely do not have any issues with her except for the 1 mistake into death situation with her. And i'm someone who has played eliza and not dropped her since 2015
It's good that her health system is now also a resource to play around with. 2x nekbite enders on dead enemies give you a lot of health which means you can kind of make slightly more mistakes (for example) so your entire gameplan is to figure out how to get as much as health as possible from an almost dead opponent (or just eat > distance > make the timer go down)
TL'DR eliza is fine and only needs a buff for her 2hk. shes hard to play because despite her having ok sticky rushdown, its not the best out of the cast. She's hard to understand because she's more than just her combos and pressure and plays the game a bit different. And that is fine. I don't have trouble with this character, and I don't think people who don't understand this character should be asking for buffs. she is really really fine.
