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Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

Mike_Z said:
I am not sure how that is relevant (but I think it's like 9.8k).
Peacock and Robo are different characters? Peacock has situational unreliable antiairs, no armor, no mines or hidden missile assist or air zoning tools, no air mobility option like Robo's j.HK, a slow dash, no standing overhead, slow pokes...Robo is the only character in the game that can combo off her sweep, which breaks armor...Peacock's zoning tools don't immediately reach fullscreen, and she has nothing except Argus to end combos with that puts people far away. Her strike-invincible reversal is 20f or something.

Arguably what's been borne out thus far in everything to do with this game (and others!) is that options >>>>> damage. Having both is obviously better, but man. Damage isn't everything. If you can't land that hit, or you get hit and can't get out of the mixups/pressure, it doesn't matter how much damage the character does. Switching for that reason is gonna be a bad idea.

I think the sentiment here is "if I'm gonna play a good zoning character why would I not play the character that can zone you out full screen then at a hat drop rush in with something to cover her offense in 15 different ways while also not needing to DHC for damage since she has the second highest damage output in the game and the ability to link her supers into each other and hey if it all goes wrong it's ok I've got a DP that's very hard to punish that leads to putting the opponent full screen for a bar anyway"
 
The difference is that peacock wants you to stay away bc her defense options are almost as bad as robos, and she lacks the speed robo has to escape.

Also low combo damage doesn't really mean much when after you are fullscreen you can meaty beam for large amounts of chip.

This will add up very, very fast
 
Peacock's DP is not hard to punish, nor hard to block on reaction, nor is it fully invincible. Peacock has zero fully invincible reversals, including with meter.

@CaioLugon I mean if Peacock gets you in the corner and hits you with no undizzy you need to think about your life choices, ne?

Though I do agree Robo could get back a TEENSY bit of damage.

From a long way back:
Acido said:
Agreed with all the Fukua changes with the exception of removing cross up j.hk. All the nerfs were coherent and had a nice reasoning behind them, but not this one.
It happens accidentally just from dash jump HK, and that's stupid. If you want to do a real crossup you can superjump or doublejump and she'll turn around.
 
noaa said:
So yeah, I feel rewarded when I "land" 5 blocked beams before my opponent manages to close in, and when he does, I feel like I have to understand it's time to j.hk the fuck out, dash under the fuck out or press any of the awesome mid-range buttons robo has. If I get myself in a bad spot, it feels like it's my fault now.

The only thing that has been bugging me is why H beam on hit deals less damage even though all of the rest (including blocked H beam) does more in the beta build.
Yessss it's the absolute best feeling when you know you had a clear option that would have worked thanks to all the new speeds and utilities and angles she can attack in.

Also, H Beam does less than the other ones probably because you combo into it and out of it 3-4 times in the corner, now that you can double jump out of it.

Buttons
2HP JHP H Beam
DJ JLK JHK H Beam
\/ /\ JLP JHK H Beam
Land
Something > Saw > Spin
OTG > Everything > Spin > Cannon

Is over 7K.

I don't have the numbers but if it's less than on hit L and M then maybe more damage could be added to the unscaled first hits?
Might not be necessary but H Beam is the hardest to hit when zoning imo.

Either way L and M feel really nice for chip and hit at the moment.
 
0fgNmqe.png


-9

i mean if your noses are touching sure it's easy if 1f to 3f punishes are considered easy

yeah better not M bang me or you're gonna get LCH punished assuming i can see up your nose
 
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I remember this comment from a while back.

Mike_Z said:
Oh, huh.
Charged Timpani using up Sound Stun is a bug, I initially copy pasted the reaction from Cymbals.
Oh well, it's how he works now.

Seemed relevant to bring this up since the beta patch reworks the utility of Big Band's supers. Any chance of this getting looked at? It would add a lot of utility to that super if worrying about sound stun with it was never an issue.

I think it would make the move really good instead of kind of awkward, especially with the new midscreen followups.
 
Jim Groovester said:
Seemed relevant to bring this up since the beta patch reworks the utility of Big Band's supers. Any chance of this getting looked at? It would add a lot of utility to that super if worrying about sound stun with it was never an issue.
I think it would make the move really good instead of kind of awkward, especially with the new midscreen followups.
Not gonna let him follow up anywhere (always with at least A-Train) AND not use soundstun.

JDbbx said:
-9
20 frames of startup, and still throwable. 20f is reactable even in SF5.
 
JDbbx said:
-9

i mean if your noses are touching sure it's easy if 1f to 3f punishes are considered easy

yeah better not M bang me or you're gonna get LCH punished assuming i can see up your nose

You give this DP far too much credit. There are more ways to beat a DP than by just blocking it. Assuming you still play Parasoul/Bella as the icons under your picture suggest - even if you don't, any character can do this - you have two characters who are amazing at jumping this any time you expect it and coming down with a fierce and get incredible HCH damage for it, and if you time it right, it even safe jumps it pretty simply because it's 20-frames, and even if you can't punish it on block after that, you're still in Peacock's face, the last place she wants anyone to be. It's also only hit invincible, so you can throw it.
 
ShakyFingers said:
You give this DP far too much credit. There are more ways to beat a DP than by just blocking it. Assuming you still play Parasoul/Bella as the icons under your picture suggest - even if you don't, any character can do this - you have two characters who are amazing at jumping this any time you expect it and coming down with a fierce and get incredible HCH damage for it, and if you time it right, it even safe jumps it pretty simply because it's 20-frames, and even if you can't punish it on block after that, you're still in Peacock's face, the last place she wants anyone to be. It's also only hit invincible, so you can throw it.
gotta go low at some point

thanks for pointing out my icons i forgot to change them


Mike_Z said:
20 frames of startup, and still throwable. 20f is reactable even in SF5.

if by some miracle my cLK reset recovers before gunblade comes out and I get time to block it I'll remember how reactable it is
 
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JDbbx said:
gotta go low at some point
And if you go low against any DP, you get hit(though I've gone low against M Bang and have still had plenty of time to whiff that button and still block it sometimes). My argument wasn't about just going high, it was just about baiting the DP. I agree that -9 is crazy and can be tough to punish in an actual match, but you can completely avoid that.

JDbbx said:
thanks for pointing out my icons i forgot to change them
Thumbs up emote.
 
ShakyFingers said:
And if you go low against any DP, you get hit(though I've gone low against M Bang and have still had plenty of time to whiff that button and still block it sometimes). My argument wasn't about just going high, it was just about baiting the DP. I agree that -9 is crazy and can be tough to punish in an actual match, but you can completely avoid that.
Oh I get you, doing that instead of baiting, right


EDIT: what I'm complaining about is the safeness of it and the fact that the option that beats it is the absolute worst option do use vs peacock

reset options:
-High: beaten by upback and sometimes gunblade. If blocked, peacock is in blockstun, second mixup is available.
-Low: beaten by gunblade and downback (why would she downback though). If blocked, peacock is in blockstun, second mixup is available.
-Grab: beaten by upback, tech, L bang. If whiffed, peacock can upback freely and restart the zoning process or neutral jump and punish. If teched you are moved apart and are returned to neutral while still being relatively close. If L bang'd she can just xx Lenny into like 8k damage. If the grab actually works congrats you've got a scaled-ass combo
 
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JDbbx said:
-Grab: beaten by upback, tech, L bang. If whiffed, peacock can upback freely and restart the zoning process or neutral jump and punish. If teched you are moved apart and are returned to neutral while still being relatively close. If L bang'd she can just xx Lenny into like 8k damage.
Do people seriously not almost-always throw+assist whenever they go for throw resets? Especially with lockdown assists it greatly reduces the effectiveness of those escapes.
 
Can someone edit the link to the patch notes into the OP?
Mainly because I'm lazy but it's probably good for other people too... not that I care about them.

In case you're lazy (like me), they're here

https: //docs.google.com/document/d/1ajPnJzly4YziSAoSjYIqRkukq3806UBNNmM1zc77dIo/edit


Apparently that's difficult...
The forum refuses to not embed the entire page :(
 
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ah yes
now it's FILIA's turn to get the dumb shit for the day
the time has come

btw i like the mine change and fukua damage being scaled again this is a good patch
 
JDbbx said:
if by some miracle my cLK reset recovers before gunblade comes out and I get time to block it I'll remember how reactable it is

This is super easy to get happen. Are you actually having trouble with the move this much? I can look at your characters options for you... lol


Boy I've missed these beta discussions~

Anyways, I felt like robos damage was fine with all her new tools, but she got a slight damage buff in this build so hopefully people wont complain about 1million tools 6.8k dmg the character =P
 
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The Kanchou slide is now projectile-invincible from frame 3 (when the non-cancellable period begins) instead of frame 8.
:D
 
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Still no Linux build? :(
 
New Fukua does like the same damage that I remember doing. Don't buff it anymore. I like her midscreen resets being slightly worse, but you can still do them and they're still strong, and how shadow/cr.mp doesn't pull out of the corner. Feels like I'm actually making decisions during the match and not just doing my favorite tournament winning loop yessir.

In the corner instead of reset you can spend a bar to do fireball -> BFF and set up a shadow for a high/low mix up on wake up, do a burst bait set up, or just go low/throw if you really feel like resetting.


I'm not a fan of H brass beating H beam. I like the idea, and I like the mindgames and stuff behind it, but you get a sliding knockdown on the character who can't afford to be knocked down like that. I'm okay with M brass beating it though, I don't know how others feel, and it'd be weird for only one of them to beat it?
 
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If it means anything coming from me, her damage from the first nerf didn't feel too bad.
 
L Bomber into Monster still has a dead zone at certain ranges on certain characters. Obviously an extreme corner case, but I feel like I've seen it happen in more realistic scenarios. Is there an easy way to fix this?
[[While I'm here, could I possibly ask for an angle readjustment on L Bomber so some characters can't downback under it and make me miss super inputs when I try to DP -> Car -> DHC out.]]

Beta changes on all the characters I play feel fine so far, even if I'm a little sad about some of Double's changes. Double on trio can't quite kill other trios with level 5 anymore (about 1k dmg short is my best attempt so far), but if you DHC into level 5 off a higher damage BnB, it gets the job done, which seems fine imo. [[Bella kills easily, Fukua kills just barely]]
 
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dekillsage said:
I'm not a fan of H brass beating H beam. I like the idea, and I like the mindgames and stuff behind it, but you get a sliding knockdown on the character who can't afford to be knocked down like that. I'm okay with M brass beating it though, I don't know how others feel, and it'd be weird for only one of them to beat it?
I did think it was like 6-4 before which is honestly not that bad. The matchup was really oppressive until Big Band gets one knockdown and then suddenly it's amazing for him. Now it's way easier to get one knockdown. If the only change in this build was the change to H Brass going through H Beam, I might even say it's in Big Band's favor now. However there's all these other changes to Robo and some of these changes are different today than they were yesterday and it's sort of hard for me to say. She's not ENTIRELY free on wakeup anymore, just mostly free, but I see mine got nerfed so maybe it's back to free. I'm really just not sure. If Robo loses the ability to double jump cancel on block which is an idea that was proposed itt earlier, that plus the change to Brass is gonna make the Big Band matchup real bad for Robo, I think.
 
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mcpeanuts said:
Hey I'm McPeanuts
I also didn't feel that it was SUPER bad for Band in retail.

He had to find a way to get past fullscreen where it's 10-0 but once he was at 3/4ths he could find gaps to H Brass or continue to super jump forward.

He can also drop kick every time he comes down from a jump just as he lands to invincibly tech forward through the beams.

Yaya is someone I play A LOT and he is pretty opposed to the current brass change.

I agree with Sage Robo really can't afford to get knocked down in that MU and now his KD took goes through her important fullscreen space control tools.

Robo can still use sHP and L Danger which will both beat Brass, and she can also neutral jump around and just do nothing.
None of that feels fun though - Just waiting around pretending to do things until you get further away.
It also lets him close the distance if you're too scared to beam.

Also if she lost double jump block cancels it wouldn't be super big because she still has the fastest dash into JLP JMK JHP.

I want Band to be able to do more in that MU, and one of the things I thought about was being able to down parry on projectiles.
Down parry wouldn't be tied to forward so you could move forward while having parry off cool down, and use it in the air and ground.
Air parry >JHK would get you a lot of space forward.
Would also help vs Peacock?

I mean that's just one idea and if Mike thinks Band needs H Brass to do this armour thing that's fine I'll play against it but I'd like to hear from the Brass players about other ideas.
 
I don't know if this would be a bad thing but i would like to suggest that the valentine vial throw as a assist worked like the mine assist (loading one if you dont have and throwing in the next call).
 
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Liam said:
I mean that's just one idea and if Mike thinks Band needs H Brass to do this armour thing that's fine I'll play against it but I'd like to hear from the Brass players about other ideas.
I'm not a Brass player, I'm a Big Band player <.<

Anyways. Sage's suggestion of only M Brass going through beam sounds pretty reasonable to me. I don't know how much being able to down parry projectiles would help; is dashing and down parrying beams on reaction better than jumping and parrying beams in the air?

Liam said:
Robo can still use sHP and L Danger which will both beat Brass, and she can also neutral jump around and just do nothing.
None of that feels fun though - Just waiting around pretending to do things until you get further away.
It also lets him close the distance if you're too scared to beam.
fwiw this is pretty much how the Big Band vs Peacock matchup feels.

Don't you also have the option to jump backwards and air H Beam? From full screen if Big Band does H Brass, it scrolls the screen and you move backwards far enough that the Brass whiffs. Maybe Big Band can still reach with a kara, but I was never able to get that to work when I tried it.
 
If we are making suggestions I would maybe like to see some changes made to penguin(Beowulf 3 hype airwulf). Its more of a pop-off thing or hype moment but its kinda just for people to flex. I want to suggest maybe just adding penguin without game winning condition's to kinda just add some damage as a reward for 3 hype.
 
mcpeanuts said:
I'm not a Brass player, I'm a Big Band player <.<

Don't you also have the option to jump backwards and air H Beam? From full screen if Big Band does H Brass, it scrolls the screen and you move backwards far enough that the Brass whiffs. Maybe Big Band can still reach with a kara, but I was never able to get that to work when I tried it.
Yeah full fullscreen J H Beam doesn't get hit by brass.
It puts him pretty close after, but the same thing could also be done with H A-Train which goes even further with less recovery right?

M Brass for hitting her out of beams and closing moderate gaps and H A-Train for big gaps to get in close and get Armour Cancel > SSJ to punish things would probably be a big enough improvement over retail.
 
dekillsage said:
New Fukua...
In the corner instead of reset you can spend a bar to do fireball -> BFF and set up a shadow for a high/low mix up on wake up, do a burst bait set up, or just go low/throw if you really feel like resetting.


I came to mostly the same conclusion, except I try to keep the drama bar at about half when I Love Dart M > BFF. I don't burst bait that well, but can rely on corner guard pressure to find another opening.

Anyways: just glad to see I'm not the only one using bff for the knockdown this patch.
 
Liam said:
M Brass for hitting her out of beams and closing moderate gaps and H A-Train for big gaps to get in close and get Armour Cancel > SSJ to punish things would probably be a big enough improvement over retail.
That sounds fair to me.
 
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Hello I was asked to post my opinion so I am.

As of right now, Robo can't really play her game at the moment vs Big Band or Brass assist. There's hardly any risk just throwing out H Brass in the matchup. If I'm mid/fullish screen away and I think Robo is about to H Beam, I'll do it. If she doesn't beam, I can react with e-brake, if she does beam, Robo is now hard knockdowned in the corner and probably dies. Even if its air beam, she sometimes still gets punished and from absolutely fullscreen away, armor cancelling into SSJ, especially if you have a DHC to continue the combo like SBO, makes the matchup incredibly obnoxious and unfun for Robo.

Not to mention how much Brass as an assist changes because of this. I'm going to use Squigly/Brass as an example where Robo is helpless against that team. Squigly gets charges for free, she calls Brass for free, and then she has Tremolo and Center Stage in addition to Brass and controls the fullscreen game better than Robo. One of the counters to Brass assist was always H Beam, but this change makes it a complete 180. I'd also like Liam's change of M Brass beating Beam, as it's harder to throw that out, realize you guess wrong, and react to guessing wrong with e-brake to make it safe compared to H Brass and its much longer startup.
 
Just an FYI the assist change was reverted so that's alright now and the m brass thing was sages idea he gets credit
 
Receita Federal said:
I don't know if this would be a bad thing but i would like to suggest that the valentine vial throw as a assist worked like the mine assist (loading one if you dont have and throwing in the next call).

I second.
 
Receita Federal said:
I don't know if this would be a bad thing but i would like to suggest that the valentine vial throw as a assist worked like the mine assist (loading one if you dont have and throwing in the next call).
Already suggested this, just have to hope its feasible to mike
 
The unscaled dart does 405 damage. (5 of it I suppose is the first DoT tick, since it seems to do ~5 damage per frame on lvl3 (~2 and ~4 for lvl1 and lvl2 vials)
Total lvl3 vial damage: 2,793
Total lvl2 vial damage: 2,306
Total lvl1 vial damage: 1,353

I'm legit curious what green and orange vial assists working like head summon would do to the game. Not point Val suddenly a thing! Teams based on ressurrection suddenly a thing as well!
 
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