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The Unofficial Official Beta Discussion Thread

Liam

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Also since I'm here, Umbrella has my full attention since she needs to be finished so we can move on, a lot of this balance conversation coming up pretty late here just doesn't have any time to be acted on, even if I wanted to. But by all means carry on with the discussion.

Thanks
Thank you for the kind words, we're all humans here and I at least really appreciated / needed it. With everyone having extremely conflicting thoughts on the game, it can be pretty draining having any change at all consistently met with vitrol while trying to keep pace with Season Pass development - can't please everyone of course! *Pained laughter*
 

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The change didn't happen for it to let you do light into a heavy. It's to make elizas ranged normals better pokes :)
1648063587386.png


Might need to clarify if the this blurb on the patch notes is an unintended consequence or a facilitated goal then
 

Liam

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View attachment 16086

Might need to clarify if the this blurb on the patch notes is an unintended consequence or a facilitated goal then
It's just a byproduct of increasing the speed of her heavies that was called out, but was not the goal of the changes. Annie can't do sLP sHK but she can do cLP sHK, etc - not planning on adjusting it for Eliza.
 

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Yeah I guessed so too. :) Like I said before, the change is huge for eliza. Being able to poke with large normals before committing to her specials makes her feel more balanced out and less like she's super "RPS" based <3 They're a HUGE change, very subtle but great. Thanks again Liam.
 
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Unrelated to the whole talk but can we get bigger dhc window for supers on hit? Like allowing fukua to dhc cancel 236KK until the recovery ends instead of until the last hit of the super since she is in recovery until touching the ground
This would open up really cool dhc routes or just let supers combo better into each other at the end of the combo for a lot of characters
I understand why it's not that way on block but on hit it would be a really nice qol
 
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I think annie install is fun to use and costs the right amount of meter in retail. it's prohibitively expensive in retail. i liked being able to snowball big leads leads or finish off half health characters coming in after a kill in the corner by activating it for a bit and doing install pressure into her cool install combos. I just can't justify a lot of the install use cases in the new beta patch unless I just have way too much meter and a big life lead. I was having a good time labbing out new routing for it too, but the option is gone most of the time now.

With regards to other changes and overall discourse on here, I don't really know what HVS's goal is. I would assume they want the game to be the best it can be, but I have no idea what the thought process is behind if a change is an improvement to the game or not. If i did, think I would have a better understanding of why what changes are being made and how I should respond to them as a player in game or outside of it.
 

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Hey guys! I just wanna preface by saying thank you so much to the entire team working hard on this game and showing that they really care to make things the best for the community. My post is just to make some comments on how Painwheel could possibly be made a better team presence, without making her broken or unhealthy to the meta since she already has an amazing DHC game. First off, I would love to see a consideration or testing of 6.HK x4 being an assist option for her. It would give her a really nice lockdown assist that would majorly help her role in teams. Maybe even charge options on her normals as assists to give assists like 2 [HP] and 2 [HK] more reward. Even a goofy change like giving the pinions some form of armor or proj armor on AC to allow an AC through pressure? Though that one may be too good. Still think this wouldn't break her or make her role too overbearing, but this is just imo.
 

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Here's a few adjustments for Squigly I would like to see:

1. Make SBO do less on chip
2. Charged P needs to be in-centralized

Other than that, she's fine.
 

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Here's a few adjustments for Squigly I would like to see:

1. Make SBO do less on chip
2. Charged P needs to be in-centralized

Other than that, she's fine.
What does 2 mean?
 

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Make it more controlable. That's what I meant to say.
Okay but elaborate how, i still dont understand my friend?
 

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Still think you should reevaluate Install to just function like it does in retail! I really do think as it is now it’s just not very good! It’s very expensive and from the sounds of it we don’t have much time to tinker around with it more.


I feel this time around we let it rock again whether it’s too powerful or not. Gives more reason to wanna use her on point anyhow!
 

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I still miss this Painwheel beta patch from last year (It blows my mind it's actually been a year wow)
If any of Painwheel's grounded charge normals are charged fully until their active frames start, they will be armored through the start of the active frames, preventing trades and having Painwheel always win the exchange. Armor ends before active as before if Painwheel releases them early.
I figured because it meant Painwheel would at minimum have to commit to 20 frames just to have 1 hit minimum of armor function properly that this would be pretty fair and I also felt like this test didn't get any air time since it was just 7 days it was up for, I feel like it didn't get as much time as a lot of other changes or experiments got. I get that it could more reliably AA things that she couldn't previously but I thought that was fair since now AAing with armor which was already done was a lot more lenient and didn't rely on having a really good reaction speed with 5[MP] other buttons could give less difficult conversions. It also gave PW more time to reaction super to armor getting hit which I also thought was a fair plus since all it did was make it easier to pull off.

Either way, I wanted to ask again if this could be reapplied to at least fully charging her grounded heavy buttons so all 3 hits of armor could see the light of day more often.

And while I'm at it, I still think it'd be very fair if fully charged heavies also auto-corrected because in a cross up set up sometimes she just goes the wrong way and that sucks plus I was standing there for more than half a second at minimum and vulnerable to throws, I think that's somewhat fair.

I just thought it was way cool to be able to play a more punish focused game for that short while.

I'm sure it's worn its welcome but here is my Painwheel wishlist again just 'cause idk.
I'm not asking for everything in it, just some elements are cool too (some got in and I'm grateful for) or none at all, no biggie.
 
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I really don't wanna see these star power changes go to retail. My main team since the annie beta has been focused around star power annie's c.hk assist. Going into star power in order to tag out for the assist just isn't practical now. I can't justify focusing a strategy around it like this so if it went to retail, I would just give up on this team. It seems like in general this change really limits creative applications of star power and makes it strictly an end-game comeback tool, which it seems is the application of it people dislike the most (myself included).
 

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Valentine Painwheel Cerebella
Really saddens me that we are about to end this beta cycle and Valentine still has the air bypass bug, even though we had a fix for it but it was reverted to prevent new routes?
From what I feel by playing her for a long while now, is that every time it doesn't get a hitbox it was sure to combo, we also didn't have a lot of time with the fix to know for sure if it was a buff or just a fix.

But even then, why is it ok for my move to not get a hitbox, making me watch Val slowly fall to her death.
 

BellaFeng4Eternity

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It would be nice if Annie's Star Power would function similar to its mobile counterpart by giving the following moves a certain effect to them.

- Make her dash cancellable with projectile/j.HK
- Make her dash cancellable on DP, hit, or block
- Make 5HK jump cancellable on hit, block, or whiff
- Give Annie some sort of RC

That's all I have for now, but I think it'll help improve Annie's Star Power install a bit.
 

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Umbrella H bubble mineutia;

every charachter gets released at a different point relative to where she launched it from bc the bubble starts their "captured" animation for a fixed amount of time after being hit. I propose that there be some sort of normalization, like if the bubble travels a fixed distance and pops when it should every time, regaurdless of hit or block. I only say this bc umbrella has really neat sf4 type setups where u just microwalk at characters and superjump to pick a side with the bubble. they range from very easy to very telegraphed depending on character(bc some of them pop earlier than others)

I could also see a world where enemies traveling in the bubble pop a set distance from the launch spot, which would achieve the same result differently.
 

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What is more interesting about j2mp over jhp? They are both overheads but j2mp is just worse in every way. Also im not sure why u mention +20 cause that frame data is pretty consistent with every jumping heavy in this game, but its worse on bella cause her dash is too bad to get any kind of mixup after a read pushblock, unlike val filia double annie etc.

You could make the argument for removing bella jhp for any random change in the game, lets remove band giantstep overhead cause he has instant jmk or lets take away filia jhp cause she can just overhead with jlp or jlk. These changes make no sense cause these characters arent nerf worthy. Bella isnt even top 5 anymore.

Maybe bella deserved these nerfs in a pre annie/umbrella world but I really think its fine to let it rock, especially if were keeping fortune/peacock as is who are inarguable 50x more egregious.
while i agree with u completely that the nerf was unwarrented i think that the increased damage fits with her identity and so does bulldogging for a grab with a great mid

im open to hearing other ways in which youd like to buff the character but i think this should stay
 
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My last suggestion in regards to Annie install is this:

Make Annie’s install cost 2 bars minimum, but it doesn’t eat one bar just to pop it. That way you don’t see level 1 install supers all the time, while still allowing me to use the Camera super and I get to get a lot of mileage out of saving the meter to pop it.

Using the moves in it is still pretty expensive. It’s the fastest install to waste, so I think perhaps setting the minimum requirement to pop it and letting the Annie players who save up for it to go wild for it would be in tact still.

That or Camera super is now like a backwards DP super input and can be done in or outta install!
 

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Dunno if this is possible to add but can Squigly please have this move, which is currently part of Double's Lvl. 3 Nightmare Legion super, and make it 6MP or 236 MP? I feel like it'll be a great addition to her existing kit.
Untitled.png
 

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I feel like Filia could use a slighty better special cancel for her toolkit and maybe tweaks to her Drill, 5MP, and 2HP to make them slightly more useful and more consistant. Other than that, I don't know what else she needs right now.

Also, make Painwheel's moves not whiff on her 2MK followup and give her armor on startup through first active use.

Last but not least, make Squigly's 5MK an actual anti-air as well.
 
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Stuff

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If something like this were to happen:

Personally, I'd like it if H george just went away on hit because fast falling to avoid it once I already hit peacock isn't always guaranteed, it depends on height (and fly canceling or fast falling from jMP can be iffy due to multihits being iffy in general but maybe I didn't lab it enough idk.)

As for spending meter, I'd rather that not be the solution against the character that already builds way more than you ever could but honestly I wouldn't be against the idea either, I like options. I just want Peacock to actually be in trouble when I hit her and not saved by her bombs which aren't resources anyway she just does them at any point and honestly I don't think Peacock players are really aiming for the H plane to save them, it just happens to be there most of the time, what's more intentional is the L george M george thing but at least for plane, let me have more situations where I can kill her.

Either way, I still think it'd be nice if Peacock was more hittable, I don't care how, I just want my punish to matter.

I just don't think I should spend a resource to beat a non-resource, it's just her projectile, she doesn't work for it, she just has it. If peacock had to stock her bombs first then I'd just call them fair but that's not the case. (not that I think they're unfair but H plane has kind of hurt my feelings over the years)
 
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Hey, I was wondering if it was okay if eliza got a training mode function much of the likes of the function band has in training mode when it comes to understanding and timing parrying, but instead, for eliza, it would be her jc's since they're so fundamental to her movement etc (like h khat -> horus midscreen and corner or assist snap l -> m -> h -> khat loop or using khat as a movement option when there are projectiles on the screen) which would make it easier to learn the understand the timing of jumping, jc blocking and jc into attack?

Edit: someone on the EU server thought i was talking about the "tutorial" so to make sure there is no miscommunication, i meant this thing that pops up when you play band :] I think it would be good for eliza to have this too in training mode
1649084531048.png
 
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Thoughts on making georges disappear when peacock gets hit by a super? Just like Val's vial effect wears off when you hit her with a super.
Parasoul players who rely on the hit of a bomb to basically roman cancel the recovery of a hit sniper shot to get conversions would cry, but otherwise i am for it


I was just thinking of random stuff and I wanted to discuss Annie j.mk, I feel like as a movement tool its outshines by Annie's already decent airdash. Applications of it as a movement tool are outshadowed and I'd like to see it changed, applications like

-It getting the hover command 2 times in the air, up from 1
-The actual kick auto-correcting

Might be a dumb idea so feel free to quote it and tell me its dumb, but also I kind wanna fly around with tails reference, it's already heavily commital considering its not holdable for that long and you HAVE to kick after it
 

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Parasoul players who rely on the hit of a bomb to basically roman cancel the recovery of a hit sniper shot to get conversions would cry, but otherwise i am for it


I was just thinking of random stuff and I wanted to discuss Annie j.mk, I feel like as a movement tool its outshines by Annie's already decent airdash. Applications of it as a movement tool are outshadowed and I'd like to see it changed, applications like

-It getting the hover command 2 times in the air, up from 1
-The actual kick auto-correcting

Might be a dumb idea so feel free to quote it and tell me its dumb, but also I kind wanna fly around with tails reference, it's already heavily commital considering its not holdable for that long and you HAVE to kick after it
the second of these changes would require jmk to function very differently than it does now

the first would not do anything but provide a red herring to her neutral for bad players to try double fly
 

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Hey, Robo players -- remember that random beam width buff we got that one week? The one that let you hit TK M Beam on crouchers?

Do you want it back? Yes?

Me too, but --

-- In order to fulfill the bingo card square of "Robo players try their luck" I propose we get a literal middle ground of retail beams and those buffed beams: half of whatever the width that was added to the beam instead of the full thing.

Jokes aside, did anyone find that one week was too good for Robo? Did it make certain matchups more polarizing or made her zoning harder to fight against? I've been cracking a lot of jokes about "hah, I should bug people about that beam thing" but was it a big enough of a change to her that maybe it made her too oppressive ala Peacock?

I'm gonna be honest, I don't think Robo needs any more tuning whatsoever -- she's in a super good spot but I'm still a little miffed that everyone agreed on reverting a buff. Curious to see if anyone thinks ever so slightly increasing beam width would be too crazy of an ask. It's not like I'm asking for Kamehameha assist or diagonal beam super. Would be cool, though.

EDIT, because I forgot to say this: I'm not asking for this to be implemented in this cycle, FYI. I don't expect any changes to happen to Robo anyway but I'm shooting my shot to see if I'm unreasonably insane or something.
 
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I'd rather take more chip over wider beams but that's just me, either way I'm not really leaning towards getting it back since some characters experience more problems than others with wider beams and that was the characters that already had a problem with Robo.

I don't think it was necessarily too good but I don't really miss it, it's hard to gauge because some tests are much shorter than others.
 

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From what I remember it was reverted cause you didn't have to choose between doing L or M beam anymore in certain situations, you'd just go for M beam every time cause your opponent would have to block it, so I like this point for reverting the buff. The iad lockout was a weirder nerf to me.